Alias II or Sage II

J

jurisprudence

Joined
Jul 17, 2009
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I really like the frame lock on my new Mnandi and am considering purchasing another frame lock knife. The Sebenza is on the list, but assuming for the sake of argument that the choice came down to the Alias II and the Sage II, which would you buy?

The knives have similar features, such as titanium handles and frame locks, quality manufacturing, same blade steel, and close in price. However, the Alias is made here in the US while the Sage is made in Taiwan.

Spyderco has excellent quality controls, so I do not think location of manufacture is a concern in that regard, but I was a bit surprised by the cost of the Sage given the manufacturing location.

I really like the Sage's clip (I have that version on my two Calys - CF and ZDP - G10 with VG10). Any other points to consider?
 
Sage 2 would be the one for me. I prefer the Spyderco hole opening, the wire clip is a nice plus, the blade on the Spyderco is FFG, and the Spyderco has a nice thumb ramp. The main reason I prefer the Spyderco is that I have read that the frame lock on the Alias 2 has had some problems.
 
There's a review on youtube where the author compares the Sage 2 to a Seb and a Strider and actually says the quality control on the Sage2 is as good (if not better) than both knives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD7bRcZHZUc

Nothing against the other makers as it's just a testament to the Spyderco's quality control. They could have a clan of apes assemble the knives and they would lock up like tanks when they were done :).

Full Flat Ground vs Hollow Ground, Leaf blade vs drop-point, hole vs stud, Titanium vs ? (I cant recall but think the Bradley uses Titanium as well). I think the Bradley, Seb, Striders are awesome but it comes down to preference.
 
Thanks for the replies and the link to the video. Generally, I prefer FFG and am indifferent regarding the hole vs. stud. I like the Sage but frankly expected it to cost much less than the Alias given that it is manufactured in Taiwan and the Alias is made here. Given that the Sage series are somewhat limited in production, in that production is not indefinite, cost certainly had to be a factor in manufacturing, which may explain the selection of Taiwan as a location.
 
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jurisprudence said:
Thanks for the replies and the link to the video. Generally, I prefer FFG and am indifferent regarding the hole vs. stud. I like the Sage but frankly expected it to cost much less than the Alias given that it is manufactured in Taiwan and the Alias is made here. Given that the Sage series are somewhat limited in production, in that production is not indefinite, cost certainly had to be a factor in manufacturing, which may explain the selection of Taiwan as a location.
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Taiwan is no longer a "cheap" soure for knifemaking. Their dollar is stronger than in previous years. We can save 25%-30% with Taiwan manufacturer. When you consider that the steel is made in the US and we ship it to the maker along with the clip & other small parts we ship. Then we have to pay shipping and duties, brokerage fees, etc. There really isn't much of a cost savings. We use this maker because of his skill, not because he is in Taiwan or it might be less expensive.

In fact, most Taiwan makers are now working with China to save money. This particular maker is a good partner with us.

sal
 
Having both, I find the two knives to be very different.

The Sage II carries much larger for me than the Alias II. Buildwise, I would not put one above the other. Ergonomically the Sage II fits my hand better (than again, I'm partial to choils on small knives.)

In my examples, the Sage II opens much smoother for me. The detent on my Alias II is quite stiff & thus the thumbstud will tear at my thumb.

I wouldn't be able to give a recommendation between the two. As often the case, it's a matter of what you want from the knife.

For me, between the two it's a matter of deciding between ergonomics (sage II gets the nod) versus a sleeker form factor (Alias II).

-Scooby
 
I'd go with the sage just because it carries better for me. I prefer tip up deep pocket carry like the sage.
 
Sal Glesser said:
We use this maker because of his skill, not because he is in Taiwan or it might be less expensive.
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Thanks very much for the response. After reviewing your response, I have this nagging question of why outsource at all? If skill was the sole factor in selecting the maker, then why not make it in Golden or Japan? Both of those locations have an excellent reputation for skill and quality. Also, made in the USA or Japan has a different image to some than made in Taiwan.

If Golden and Japan are at capacity and adding staff wasn't a reasonable solution then outsourcing to a quality maker in Taiwan makes sense. It seems that I am missing something in the decision if it was solely for skill and not expense.
 
I had an Alias II, but I gave it to my son. Not because I didn't like it (I did), but because he lost his knife and needed another one. It was a little difficult to open. I have a small Sebenza, and it is one of my favorite knives hands down. Easy to open and you can take it apart for cleaning without voiding any warranties. I plan on getting a Sage II here shortly. It looks like a very nicely done framelock and of course I love the Spydie hole.
 
jurisprudence said:
Thanks very much for the response. After reviewing your response, I have this nagging question of why outsource at all? If skill was the sole factor in selecting the maker, then why not make it in Golden or Japan? Both of those locations have an excellent reputation for skill and quality. Also, made in the USA or Japan has a different image to some than made in Taiwan.

If Golden and Japan are at capacity and adding staff wasn't a reasonable solution then outsourcing to a quality maker in Taiwan makes sense. It seems that I am missing something in the decision if it was solely for skill and not expense.
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I know that Sal has commented about the lack of space in Golden for new production models, I'm not so sure about Seki.

I was worried a bit. Sage II, ~$170 with shipping, probably the second most costly Spyderco I've purchased ($180 for a S90V Millie :D :D ). Taiwan made. I felt a little odd at first. Normally you associate "China" and "Taiwan" markings with cheap knives, and this one was certainly anything but. F&F were flawless, and above the level found in some Seki Spydercos to be honest. The Bob T slipit was also amazing.

Whomever Spyderco is using, they have some serious skill. The Sage II could easily go for $200+ and be a bargin. It is in the top range for framelocks (compared to Hinder, Strider, limited CRK exposure).
 
Thanks Sal for the great perspective. Thanks Scooby for the first-hand comparison.

Japan didn't have a great reputation 50 years ago in the USA and now people (in general) would rather push a Honda Accord than drive a Chrysler Sebring.

The ultimate goal is quality control and if people can directly compare a Sage 2 to a Sebenza or Alias II that's a testament in itself. At $140ish for a street price its still an amazing value as some G10 models with VG10 are in the $120-160 range.

I say pick what you like and don't let manufacturing location impact the decision much. If it locks up like a tank, is smooth and beautiful...who cares about the rest? :)
 
For a decade I just didnt get Spyderco and their knives.

The Mili and Para changed that for me. And now I absolutely love my cheap ol' Tenacious.

When I first saw the Manix II and then the Sage II...well...my admiration went to an all time high.

There's some REAL exciting things coming from Spyderco these days.:thumbup:
 
If I were considering an Alias II then I would be looking closely at the new Spyderco Wilkins Leaf Storm.
 
I was in the exact position you are a few months ago and decided to wait for a Ti sage and now that I have it I couldnt be happier. The alias in my opinion is a direct sebenza knock off, while the sage uses the same materials to showcase the sebbie & CRK. The biggest difference I think is in the clip and overall width. The sage is a good bit wider when closed but has the better clip so that is what won me over when picking a new EDC
 
what is the thickness of sages' scales? similar or thinner then sebenza? i ask because scales on alias is thinner then on sebenza and alias little less comfortable for my hand.
 
zvir said:
what is the thickness of sages' scales? similar or thinner then sebenza? i ask because scales on alias is thinner then on sebenza and alias little less comfortable for my hand.
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Don't own a Sebenza, so I can't compare them. It's definitely thicker than a Mnandi. The total thickness of the RIL Sage is 7/16", or about 11.2 mm. Each scale is about 1/8" thick.

Paul
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Sal Glesser said:
Taiwan is no longer a "cheap" soure for knifemaking. Their dollar is stronger than in previous years. We can save 25%-30% with Taiwan manufacturer. When you consider that the steel is made in the US and we ship it to the maker along with the clip & other small parts we ship. Then we have to pay shipping and duties, brokerage fees, etc. There really isn't much of a cost savings. We use this maker because of his skill, not because he is in Taiwan or it might be less expensive.

In fact, most Taiwan makers are now working with China to save money. This particular maker is a good partner with us.

sal
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Just wondering if this is the same Taiwanese company that messed up the 1st batch of Spyderco Cat's and Chicago's?
 
If CRK were to use a Round Hole opener, wire clip, and FFG blade, it'd look like the Sage II. :)
 
Adamar said:
Just wondering if this is the same Taiwanese company that messed up the 1st batch of Spyderco Cat's and Chicago's?
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I'm sure there are plenty of companies that have messed up a batch here or there. I recall about half the American cars in the 80s that seem to have painted their vehicles in dusty warehouses. :rolleyes:

If the final product has impeccable fit and finish who cares about a bad batch here or there. Obviously nobody is perfect but Sal & co in many cases has made amending actions for any of these "flaws" that have reached the public. If Sal trusts them to put together a titanium Sage there is good reason for it (the end users are preaching of the quality control/fit and finish). Ultimately Spyderco is a manufacturer competing in the realm of custom knife making which few if any companies can do at any price range.

Everyone loves an outsourcing witch hunt but if the Tenacious is an outstanding knife for $30 you an bet a $140-160 knife from Spyderco is going to be near-custom level.
 
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