All you Ontario Guys - RAT-7 Question

Pritch

Pritch

Joined
May 3, 2006
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So based on reviews here, I recently bought myself a RAT-7 (1095) to serve as my primary "chopper/big knife". Here are my initial impressions: The handle feels good in my hand and I like the weight forward aspect of it. On the other hand, the sheath is only so-so and the "edge", if you can call it that, is just ridiculous! I have letter openers that are sharper! For the past three days I have been working at rebeveling the edge and I'm still not there!

So my question is this: Is this the norm with Ontario or other lower priced knives or is this just the consequence of buying it on eBay? I have never bought a knife before where the manufacturer didn't even attempt to put an edge on it before holding it out for sale. I know many people think of choppers as blunt instruments, but pu-leeze! Is this because individual owners each have different preferences on edge geomotry? Is the RAT-7 a "kit" knife?

Okay whining over. The grey stones on the Sharpmaker weren't even making a dent so I utilized the wet/dry sandpaper around the rod method I saw described here. I am making progress, but it seems to have stalled. For some reason, it seems like all I'm doing now is scraping the abrasive off of the sandpaper. Any ideas?

I can't wait to get a good edge on this puppy and put it through its paces!

-- FLIX
 
Hmmmm, ok, RAT-7 owner here.

Mine did have a decent edge, needed some final work to make it sharp.
After some use I decided the angle was just too blunt for my liking (Like a lot of production knives), so I rebeveled.

With the Sharpmaker, you should be able to follow their instructions.
Use the 30° setting to alter the primary angle. Then go the 40° and follow through with a complete sharpening.

It's not that wide an edge that you should be removing a ton of material, but, for sake of argument, let's say it's a real obtuse grind angle, I don't see where wet/dry paper is gonna remove it any faster than the brown sticks?
Maybe a coarse or medium diamond block.

Look at the Sharpmaker instruction booklet, and go to Page 6, where it discusses "Back bevel". See the photo labelled "Removing Shoulders".
That's what you are trying to do.

Keep the faith.

edit: you can even contact Ontario if need be.
 
Thanks for the reply, Skunk,

I didn't realize quite how negative I was sounding in my original post until I reread it. I guess all of this edgework is getting to me. . .:o

I can't find the instruction manual and the DVD I have is out with a customer. Hmm. I think I have an old VHS tape around here somewhere. . .

The original edge was VERY steep. The edge was originally less that 1mm wide. Now that I have been working on it for several days using the 30 degree (how do you make that symbol again?), it is precisely 2mm. Using a magic marker, I have been checking to see where material has been being removed. It has all been "shoulder until just now. I have most of the blade rebeveled at 30 degrees, except for part of the curve and tip on both sides. I'm using 320 grit paper, which is substantially courser than my grey rods.

-- FLIX
 
Flix,
I don't have the RAT-7 although I have been thinking of getting one. I have a TAK-1 and I had similar sharpness issues. I have the Edgepro sharpener, since no new knife I get is ever sharp enough out of the box for me. It will take you a while to reprofile that edge on the Sharpmaker but it can be done. Appears that you are heading in the right direction. To satisfy my own curiosity, where is the balance point on the RAT-7? Let us know what you think of the knife once you start using it, inquiring minds want to know.
 
Flix,

Hold [alt] and then hit 2 4 8 in succesion on your number pad.

On the Sharpmaker you use 30° , with the dark stones, and use the point, not the flat. Then repeat using the white rod, with the point also.

then go to the 40° and do the full sharpening routine.

I'm not arguing that your 320 grit wet/dry is coarser, but the darker stones were designed to remove metal. Sounds like you know what you are doing, so, go with what works. A coarse diamond hone would rip it right down. ;)

Yours is 1095, right? The D2 could be a bear to rebevel.

I'll try to Email ya.
 
Hi,
I used the Lansky sharpening System with the coars diamond stone to make a better edge on my RAT 7. worked very good.
Ede
 
Hey Flix,
Here's what I did. I bought a RAT-3 and, while it came sharp, it was way too obtuse. I think the primary bevel was ground at about 25 degrees....I'm serious, it was super shallow.

You didn;t say whether you got the D2 or 1095. Speaking only for D2, I can tell you it's way too tough for the Sharpmaker stones. They're not coarse enough. I mean for rebeveling only...it'll just take too looooooong.

I bought a Lansky and worked for HOURS (I'd like to repeat so there's no mistake......HOURS) over a period of 3 days to bring the primary bevel down to 17 degrees. That was using the extra coarse stone in the Lansky Deluxe kit. I had posted several times in a thread and received tons of advice while these HOURS and DAYS whiled away. After I was done, somebody said "take a file to it to get your bevel close, then finish it up with stones. Why didn;t I think of that? Someone else said to use a belt sander to get the primary bevel close (then finish with stones).

Anyway, I got it done finally. Then, I honed a 20 degree secondary (or micro) bevel using the Sharpmaker. Now it's sharp. Now, one thing I did do with the Sharpmaker: I still wasn't satisfied with the 17 deg primary bevel. So I began, a little bit every day, to use the coarse Sharpmaker rods to grind the primary bevel to 15 degrees. After work I would go out and stroke about 60 times each side and after a few days I had a primary 15 degree and a 20 degree secondary bevel. That's where I am now and I'm pretty happy with it.

Another problem if you got the D2 blade is the epoxy coating. I would imagine the black coating on the 1095 blades is similar, since my Nimravus black coating does the same thing: The coatings wear off during the rebeveling and clog the stones. I am positive of this. So that's another obstacle.

I would give the same advice I received in the Toolshed: subforum: Don;t give up!

Good luck
 
SkunkWerX said:
On the Sharpmaker you use 30° , with the dark stones, and use the point, not the flat. Then repeat using the white rod, with the point also.
Click to expand...

Hey! Did you say I should be using the edges of the triangle stones, not the flat sides? That sounds odd, because there is less stone material working the metal, but maybe that's what I've been doing wrong.

Stretch, I think I would be pretty dangerous taking a file to my knife. What I like about the Sharpmaker is that I don't have to "guess" at the angle. (Well, as long as I can hold the knife vertically!) I don't think that I'm clogging the stones with the finish, at least anymore, because the place where material is still being removed is primarily where the new bevel is overcomming the old one, which is all raw metal. I read the post over in the toolshed and also read Foxhole's description of his father in law fixing him up with a beltsander.

The knife is 1095. I saw that in my original post I somehow typed "1995". :confused:

Thanks everybody for the input and encouragement.

--FLIX
 
FLIX said:
Hey! Did you say I should be using the edges of the triangle stones, not the flat sides? That sounds odd, because there is less stone material working the metal, but maybe that's what I've been doing wrong.

Thanks everybody for the input and encouragement.

--FLIX
Click to expand...

Flix, correct. I consulted the manual to make sure I told you correctly. I'm looking at it right now.

When rebevelling using the 30° slots, use the corner edge of the stones, NOT the flat. They are designed to actually cut quicker that way.
Use the corner edge of the dark stones, then move to the corner edge of the white stones.

Afterward, for normal sharpening , go to the 40° slots, corner edge of stone first, then the flat, then switch to corner edge of white stone, and then, finally the flat. Should be shaving sharp at that point.
 
Get yourself a mill bastard file about 6-8inches long. Use the file to reset the cutting angle to what you want then move to the Sharpmaker. Total time will be about ten minutes. The corners of the Sharpmaker do cut steel faster but it's still a lot slower than a few file strokes :)
 
this is a good post for me to read as i have a rat-3 in mail right now :) and a waved endura you guys arn't helping my addiction any :)
 
Bill Siegle said:
Get yourself a mill bastard file about 6-8inches long. Use the file to reset the cutting angle to what you want then move to the Sharpmaker. Total time will be about ten minutes. The corners of the Sharpmaker do cut steel faster but it's still a lot slower than a few file strokes :)
Click to expand...

Bill,
How would you file it? File from the direction of the spine toward the edge? I can't imagine going from edge to spine. Would you use a makeshift guide to keep the angle relatively consistent?

Also, I have alot of files, but they're not marked (of course) as to whether they're bastard, mill bastard, etc. Is there a way I can tell if I have one?

I really wish I had known this before I changed the bevel on my knife. It would have saved ALOT of work.
 
My RAT5 should be here soon, I hope its sharp.
I have a lansky system, that will make short work of it though.
 
Bill Siegle said:
Get yourself a mill bastard file about 6-8inches long. Use the file to reset the cutting angle to what you want then move to the Sharpmaker. Total time will be about ten minutes. The corners of the Sharpmaker do cut steel faster but it's still a lot slower than a few file strokes :)
Click to expand...

Bill , thanks! I like your knife designs and profiles.

I'm always very hesitant to tell people to grab a file, but have done that numerous times. It' just something about having to take a file to a brand new knife...
 
Liam Ryan said:
My RAT5 should be here soon, I hope its sharp.
I have a lansky system, that will make short work of it though.
Click to expand...

Liam, if its the diamond Lanksy, then yes, but if not, you'll be stroking for a while with that coarse stone.

You may not have the same issue, best to wait and see, try it, then go from there.

I find the Lanksy is very good to check your angles while grinding and filing, then using it for final bevel work.
I use it as a gauge as much as I do for sharpening.
 
Mine was in D2 and I just had to hit it with a stone to make it nice. But after playin with it I changed it. I thunned it out a bit. Not for nothing get in contact with Jeff Randle over at www.jungletraining.com and he will give you some advice or maybe even send you a new one. There great guys over there.
 
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