allthread

[jdm61]

I need to attach some allthread rod to the tangs of two knives. I do not have a welder, have I ever welded or brazed anything. I'm not all that good at soldering either What is the best way to do this?

 

[fitzo]

Cold forge brass allthread into a keyhole slot in the end of the tang. Hard soldering it afterwards is even nicer.

Drill a hole slightly wider than the rod so it ends about 3/16 back from the end of the tang. Notch it the width of the allthread from the end to the hole. Now you have the keyhole. Anneal the end of the brass by heating to red and allowing to cool (or water quench). Then hammer the brass to expand it to fit the hole and thus secure it against pulling out. Soldering it afterwards would be nice, but it's not critical if you get a good tight fit. Brass is good because the rod then bends a bit to fit whatever you're screwing onto the end.

Allthread should be a little larger diameter than tang width. You can use a drift to forge it in if need be. Don't forget to put your guard on first!

Hope that helps.

 

[fitzo]

Method #2:

Cut slot but don't keyhole. Drill small hole from spine to edge side through tang and rod. Pin .

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

Is this before heat treat?

Method 3:

Find someone with a TIG welder who is willing to weld tool steel.

Small notch (~1/4") in blade to receive the all thread. Wire brush the joint, then wipe with acetone. Fixture and clamp. Preheat to around 500 deg with torch, before welding. Tack on one side, then the other, then the end last. Inspect to be sure there was no draw. Rotate and weld side two. Inspect. Rotate and weld side one. Heat with torch again and air cool. Obviously this would all need to be done before heat treat.

I've welded thumb studs directly to D2 folder blades, and a shaft to A2 with no problems. For compatibility, I recommend stainless filler rod, that's what a lot of the injection mold repair guys use on tool steels.

I wouldn't recommend stick or MIG for something like this. OA might work...

Just a thought...

 

[Dan Gray]

Method 4:
don't use all thread,
if you are making the knife from start
if this is the case, make the tang long enough and round the end to a standard size and die the threads on the tang, this is what I do..

for those,
of course those of you that feel you have to use allthread , there are many ways as stated above.

I'll use drill rod instead of allthread most of the time if I need to lengthen an all ready H?T'ed blade for a customer. it's stronger than most low or no carbon threaded rod..

Method 4:
also don't rule out using bolts the head will be there to use in a slot and once in place you can just grind it flat to the tang

 

[jdm61]

Method 4:
don't use all thread,
if you are making the knife from start
if this is the case, make the tang long enough and round the end to a standard size and die the threads on the tang, this is what I do..

for those,
of course those of you that feel you have to use allthread , there are many ways as stated above.

I'll use drill rod instead of allthread most of the time if I need to lengthen an all ready H?T'ed blade for a customer. it's stronger than most low or no carbon threaded rod..

Method 4:
also don't rule out using bolts the head will be there to use in a slot and once in place you can just grind it flat to the tang

I normally forge out the tang and thread it, but in this case, I cahnged my mind and on one knife, the entie tang is only like 4 inches long on a 9 inch bowie blade.......don't ask.....lol. I'm a bit concerned about having an inch of wood hanging out the end. The other knife is an slender 11 inch bowie and the balance of both of them would be helped considerably by a medium sized buttcap.

 

[steierknives]

The method I use requires a mill. You can cut the head off of a bolt. Place it in a mill vice and mill an open ended slot in the bolt with an endmill the same size as the thickness of you blade. Before you heat treat the blade, slide the slotted bolt over the tang end of the knife where you need the threads. You can then drill holes through the bolt and tang for a two pins (1/8 round stock is good)which you swedge to hold the bolt on. This makes a rigid joint without welding or soldering.

 

[Dan Gray]

I normally forge out the tang and thread it, but in this case, I cahnged my mind and on one knife, the entie tang is only like 4 inches long on a 9 inch bowie blade.......don't ask.....lol. I'm a bit concerned about having an inch of wood hanging out the end. The other knife is an slender 11 inch bowie and the balance of both of them would be helped considerably by a medium sized buttcap.

Joe if it's already threaded. why not just make a threaded sleeve and add some allthread to it?,, a piece of round steel a drill bit and a tap

 

[LRB]

I make a lap joint for the allthread, put two pins through it, then hard solder, but the solder is really just insurance, the pins would hold it without the solder.

 

[jdm61]

Joe if it's already threaded. why not just make a threaded sleeve and add some allthread to it?,, a piece of round steel a drill bit and a tap

This one wasn't threaded. It was going to be a hidden tang.

 

[Dan Gray]

Joe if it's already threaded. why not just make a threaded sleeve and add some allthread to it?,, a piece of round steel a drill bit and a tap.

This one wasn't threaded. It was going to be a hidden tang.

you could anneal it

 

[A C Richards]

Wayne Goddard explains it in one of his books. The reason for the allthread is to have a larger dia screw than the thickness of the ricasso hence stronger hold. I normally use 1/4 inch allthread and notch the tang of the knife to receive it. Then i hard solder the allthread to it. Very strong, the allthread or tang ususally fails before the solder. I have not had one fail on a knife in over 10 years now. I used to TIG weld it but it made the whole thing too brittle. I even tried to anneal but it does not hold as well as the solder I use.

Chuck

 

[Aldo Bruno]

I have 2 pieces that sat for months before I put them together. What I finally did was to buy 10-32 thumb screws 2" long. I ground down the tab enough to fit it through the stag to the back of the tang. I drilled both the tang and the flat on the thumb screw and used 2 chain saw links to hinge them together making a very maneuverable double hinge. I wanted to make sure everything was lined up before I put on the butt cap.

With the guard and spacer in place I am able to slip the stag over the whole assembly with a nut and washer on the back and line everything up. IF the threads do not line up where you want them, you can take a 10-32 rod coupling( a long nut) and thread it down the threads well inside the back of the handle grab it with a pair of pliers and bend it against the double hinge to set my threads dead center of the butt plate. The rod coupling keeps the threads from distorting. After that you take a washer and nut, tighten it down and pour epoxy into the back of the stag till the hinge is covered and let it set. When the nut and washer are taken off the threaded rod is right where you want it and the stag is set in place.

If you need the counter weight to balance a larger knife, you fill the entire void left with epoxy before attaching the butt plate. It ain't going no where.

 

[Dan Gray]

Wayne Goddard explains it in one of his books. The reason for the allthread is to have a larger dia screw than the thickness of the ricasso hence stronger hold. I normally use 1/4 inch allthread and notch the tang of the knife to receive it. Then i hard solder the allthread to it. Very strong, the allthread or tang ususally fails before the solder. I have not had one fail on a knife in over 10 years now. I used to TIG weld it but it made the whole thing too brittle. I even tried to anneal but it does not hold as well as the solder I use.

Chuck

if you use high carbon drill rod, you'll have more strength using smaller rod than A/T
and you can H/T it for even more strength.
you don't need more than about 3/8" or so of it threaded so the rest for a take down to me just looks ugly.

also with the added strength you can flatten the sides of it so adding a guard after the fact won't be a problem
just more to think about ..

 

[SteelSlaver]

Here is what I have worked my way to . First I usually use 5/16th or 3/8" B7 all thread material, I have never actually looked up the alloy of this industrial stud used on high pressure vessels and piping. I do know they are fairly high carbon and very tuff as I have handled tons (really) of them while working on pressure equipment. (I have helped wear out lots of 3/4" to 1 1/2" "raddle" guns with the bigger sizes (they have beat my shoulders to crap.) I have welded on them. bent them, ground them,broke them off, sawed and drilled them out you name it. Take a 3'4" B7 stud that is frozen and cut about 1/3 thru then put on a 1 and a 1/4 pinwrench and cheater and I have too really get on it to pop it and I weigh close to 300. A frozen 1 3/4" stud will just laugh at me and a 2 and 3/4 wrench till I drag out a hydraulic nut buster or a torch.

Anyway first I take the damascus billet and cut it to the length I want for blade and guard, then I cut a 3/8" wide notch centered on the top third of the blade the notch is about 3/4 inch deep. Then I put the all thread in the notch with its thickness centered and a slight gap where the end ran to the blade I hit this end gap with some 3/32 7018 running kind of hot and make a solid 3/8+ dot on that side the billet. Roll it over hit that sides gap with a very small wheel on my end grinder to clean the start slack from the gap. My first tack is hot enough that the weld pushes a bit to side I was now cleaning. Once I hit clean steel and am lined up straight, I hit it again with the welder and make the same dot of 7018. Then I take a torch and hit rest of the all thread in the gap and when it is a nice red I used a small hammer (32oz) to flatten the remaining all thread in the slot. I cleaned it all up smooth and flat with a 41/2" grinder. I then take the rest of the original damascus billet and cut 2 chunks a little over an inch long and running the same way as the blade. (You can semi match up the patterns) I then position them on each side of the welded area all lined up as well as possible and drill 2 holes 1/16th dia thru the pieces and loosely pinned them togeather with some pure nickel tig rod, (If I wanted a thicker guard 2 pieces on each side would do it. I slight peen the pins so they do not separate and are held LOOSELY togeather I then stick the assy in my forge and when it is a nice red I sprinkled the gaps with borax and back in the forge. I have my gas forge on high high and the prometer will show 2300. When the steel is ready I grabbed the all thread with a set of skinny tongs and set the guard assy on my anvil and whop whop it was one piece, then lay it on its spine and a couple taps flaten my guard and thicken my ricasso. Forge my blade out a bit with a couple heats then after gently tapping the all thread flat while a bit red, yes the all thread bends all over when you are working but I have not ruined the threads yet. I take it up to critical then stick it all what I call my super oven mitt. It looks like 2 thick seat cushions hinged togeater, but it is constructed out of a cloth an insulator friend claims will take about 2000 degrees and the padding is a couple inches of kaowool in each. The next day I run a tap over the all thread and I use a small grinder and file to square it up a bit then I thread on a cheap die this I use as a filing jig to fine tune the shoulders and it spin it down completely flat even if the threads right at the guard aren't perfectbecause that side of the die has been extra beveled, only a the last few of the threads on the die are very tite now. Once its nice and square and the die is removed ,I have a drilled and tapped aluminium handle to thread on while I finish the blade. Then I can square any piece of handle material, drill and tap it and thread it on and it will butt up nice and square to my bolsters, a 2 piece grips of a compatable material is easy I square drill and tap both and I get a nice fit. If I want a cap and it is thick enough I drill and dead hole tap. If it is thin like a couple I did once I just taped all the way thru and when the handle was all ground and sanded up fine I removed the handle and cap one last time gave it and the blade assy an etch job or color heat job (blueing is coming) and reasesembled with some glue. The ones with the thin cap I took the knife to the sander and run a small bevel on the end of the all thread and then vised it up and filed a star like pattern on the end of the all thread. I take the cap and used a jewlers file thru the threaded hole to cut a couple thin slots across the threads. I reassemble it all with a bit of good marine epoxy on the handle and use black JB weld on the cap threads and also to smoothly fill the pattern in the end of the all thread and buff when the time is right. The beveling leaves a small circle around the pattern I created. I also believe it would be very tough to unscrew the cap or have it come loose. Everyone thinks the mosaic pin on the cap is cool.

This is the method I have evolved into with my hidden all thread tang knives. I belive it would work just as well with MR. Grays drill rod. If I was to use a completely round rod I think I would put a few "nicks" in it so that when I epoxied the handle material on it would be harder to turn the handle on the rod when everything set up. Just my opinion, He is much much more expienced than I. I just have a good supply of very good all thread, I like this method and I am trying to perfect it for myself. I will make very very good knive someday.

Comments and suggestions PLEASE

 

[SteelSlaver]

i did a search and here is the composition of B7 stud material. I you want to use all thread I highly recoment this stuff.

carbon .38-.48
manganese .75-1.0
silicon .20-.35
chromium .80-1.1
molybdenum .15-.25