Alox vs. Opinel vs. Buck 300s durability

Jack Wanamaker said:
Is it true that the black valox Bucks have stainless steel liners, as I've read here? To my eye, it looks like the liner is one piece with the bolster--nickel silver.
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To the best of my knowledge, it would depend on the year and the edition. See post 9 in this topic:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...as-good-as-the-old-ones?p=8769006#post8769006


This topic is a nice look at the changes in the Buck 301 from 1966-1990
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/752697-300-Series-History-1966-to-1990
 
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This thread brings up a very interesting comparison. I own several examples of each the 3 knives mentioned and I too put those 3 into a special category of knives made for a lifetime of work.

All 3 knives are made to work and all 3 knives are designed to be opened easily and cut efficiently (especially the previous generation full-flat-grind Buck 301's).

If we're talking how many cuts and resharpenings a knife can handle before it's unusable I'd have to give the advantage to the Buck. It has 3 blades that would last more than a farmer's lifetime if sharpened properly weekly by hand. The 301 also has a very unique construction in which the liners and bolsters are one monolithic piece of Nickel Silver, making for a slipjoint with one less joint than is typical (most all slipjoints have the bolsters soldered onto the liners).

All 3 knives are deformed pin construction and can therefore all be easily and permanently tightened with a small vice and ball pein hammer (a buffing wheel helps smooth things back out if you're not into that meteorite-bolster look).
 
Macchina said:
This thread brings up a very interesting comparison. I own several examples of each the 3 knives mentioned and I too put those 3 into a special category of knives made for a lifetime of work.

All 3 knives are made to work and all 3 knives are designed to be opened easily and cut efficiently (especially the previous generation full-flat-grind Buck 301's).

If we're talking how many cuts and resharpenings a knife can handle before it's unusable I'd have to give the advantage to the Buck. It has 3 blades that would last more than a farmer's lifetime if sharpened properly weekly by hand. The 301 also has a very unique construction in which the liners and bolsters are one monolithic piece of Nickel Silver, making for a slipjoint with one less joint than is typical (most all slipjoints have the bolsters soldered onto the liners)

All 3 knives are deformed pin construction and can therefore all be easily and permanently tightened with a small vice and ball pein hammer (a buffing wheel helps smooth things back out if you're not into that meteorite-bolster look).
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Yes, the three blades of the 301 gives it a massive advantage over the other knives for cutting tool jobs. You can spread out the wear over a much wider base, like using one blade for fine work, one blade for so-so work and keep a bit steeper angle on the edge, and then keep one blade as a "Aw heck, this is gonna mess up the edge sure as it snows at the North Pole!"

That's the way I worked my stockman, and at the end of 25 years, the main clip blade was in very good shape, the sheep foot was worn a noticeable amount, and the spey blade was beat to all heck from those jobs I didn't want to kill the "good" blades on. I really think the knife had another 25 years of use left in it, but my grandson glommed not it and now I can't get near it!
 
I think some of this is comparing apples to oranges to some degree as it'll come down to individual usage for each knife. One that is used several times a day for perhaps heavier tasks will loosen up and loose blade material from resharpening quicker than one perhaps only used a few times a week. Owner maintenance is key as well. Knife guys tend to take better care of their knives as opposed to guys who view it as just a tool, same as their hammer or wrench. Look at the ones you've seen where they are resharpened on the grinder. Yikes. Oil the joints? What's that? Lol.

But it's very easy to find examples for all three of these models still providing great service after many, many years. I've an alox Vic with a 64 blade stamp still going very strong. Still tight and chugging along just fine. Many old Bucks too.

To me, the alox Vic is about the most bombproof, with the Buck a very near second. The Opinel not so much, but close, mainly due to the lighter blade stock and wooden handle which are more susceptible to environmental conditions.

But, all back to purpose, care, and usage.
 
I'd have to say the Opinel is least durable of the three. Merely because it's *possible* the wood handle could split and come apart under heavy usage. Mind you, I've never heard of this happening.

But there are two other points in favor of the Opinel, not necessarily durability related: It's the only one available with a locking blade, and with a carbon steel blade. :D
 
Jack Wanamaker said:
Is it true that the black valox Bucks have stainless steel liners, as I've read here? To my eye, it looks like the liner is one piece with the bolster--nickel silver.
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I believe the liners and bolsters are one piece. 300 Bucks would know for sure. But it's all stainless steel, not nickel silver.

The 300 series, is built like the proverbial brick "telephone booth". However, as others have said, if used for standard cutting tasks, all of the knives you have listed will last for many years.
 
I almost decided to abandon this thread but since good people have replied I will chime in.

I am not one to worry which of the knives mentioned is tougher than a billy goats parts. I determine usefulness by how a knife stands up to normal country boy/ outdoorsman actions. I don't intend to carry one of the above knives to rescue someone from being locked in a safe. Any of those mentioned will last a good spell if tended to a little, sharped NOT by a grinder, oiled in their joints, lint picked out of the blade well once a year or so and not using the tip of the clip blade as a screwdriver. I found a Buck 309 10 years ago in the middle of a western Kansas gravel county road. And even though no houses were in sight for as far as I could see in that flatland, it had been run over at least once. The back scale and liner was slightly bowed into the blade well, I bent it back farily straight with a screwdriver blade and the little two blade worked fine. Sorta like myself, we can get most jobs done but we have a couple of scars here and there.

Throw me out on one of the naked island TV shows, and I will be happy to have any of the three knives mentioned. Along with some bug juice. I have destroyed a couple of Buck folders in writing about their construction I will include a photo or two for your edification. 300

Looks solid to me. view thru bolster and blade pin.


This how tough is it deal is actually about money. If I paid a couple of hundred dollars for a folder then it better be well made and have some fancy fixin's on it. Jackknife would likely call it the Judge's knife. He stopped in the store while he was bird huntin' and was showing off his 'fancy' knife. Any of the knives mentioned above are made as strong as cost will allow but the cost is trying to be low enough so a kid can collect cans a good spell and go to the hardware store and buy their product. I think a bunch of knives here on Traditional forum are great knives and I would love to find one in the dirt of a crossroads someplace. But, I place value on the fact that any of them, well taken care of, will someday be owned by a person who will say 'this was his knife." Now that's a pocket knife.
 
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Thanks for sharing that pic 300. I'm always interested in seeing the construction side of knife making.

I'm curious, are those internals just sandwiched by the liners and bolster pins, or are they induction welded as well? I'm guessing not, or the springs may not work properly? But the bolsters are either soldered or welded to the liners, correct? Or that is maker dependent as well?

Sorry for all the questions on a Sunday morning......:)

I wanted to add that I think your post is spot on and I always appreciate your input. Even if I wasn't the OP.
 
As I understand it, for a few years after Buck switched to three springs, the N/S bolsters were fused to SS liners but new models are all forged SS. Springs have a rivet under the scale and the scale is held on by being pressed over the shield pillar of the front liner and the black holes are places that (Delrin and now Valox) where pillars of scale material are heat 'smashed' (my word) to form a rivet heat in a depression around the hole edge. The bolster pins still go thru all the parts to make for easy warranty repair. That was apparently one of the goals when Schrade lost the contract to make them in the late sixties, to make it a little easier for Buck to meet their 'forever' warranty promise. But, let me worn folks still carrying a old Buck/Schrade from the four years in the sixties, send in a model from back then and expect a new modern replacement as parts have dried up. Lets not turn this into a Buck thread. This is a discussion comparison of the three mentioned. More Buck questions, jump over to that forum and we will wax on for days.......300
 
I'll jump in...

As others have mentioned, durability and toughness need to be considered in terms of the different ways knives can get damaged. These knives have different strengths and weaknesses.

The Alox SAKs are a nice homage to the US "Demo Knives" made for the US military. The big difference is that instead of stainless scales, the Alox knives have anodized aluminum scales. Expect the anodization to wear off and the scales to get dinged and call it character. I find Victorinox Inox to be a bit on the soft side and find their tools to be overly polished and more prone to stripping or getting striped compared to Leatherman products of the same size.

The Buck 301 has great steel and is solidly built but I've not owned a flush peened slip joint by any maker that will stand up to hard lateral forces on the blade. If you tend to pry with your blades, don't get shocked if you produce some lateral play, which as other have mentioned, can usually be fixed by carefully pressing the bolsters in a padded vice.

The Opinel does *NOT* have a flat peened pin. The heads of the pin are left wide and proud under the lock ring and are further strengthened by the single piece "bolster", or inner ring, which is stronger than two disconnected slab bolsters.

I gave an Opinel #8 to a buddy of my who works as a carpenter/GC on bet that he couldn't bust the knife. He used it as a pry bar and to open cans of paint. The joint never developed a bit of lateral or horizontal play. After 18 months of intentional abuse, he succeeded in work hardening the blade by the repeated flexing (just like a paper clip) and eventually, he busted the blade. I would put the integrity of the joint of the Opinel head and shoulders above the other 2 knives.

Another place where the Opinel will out perform the 2 slip joints is in sandy or dirty environments. Slipjoints (and lockbacks) complain loudly if you drop them in the sand at the beach. With the Opinel, you'll get some grinding in the lock ring, which is optional anyway, but the joint will be largely unaffected.

The place where the Opinel suffers is with moisture. I've had good luck treating the pivot with Johnson's paste wax (melt in with a hair dryer or heat gun). But if you're going to be putting the knife under hot soapy water all day long, the other knives will be happier with that sort of treatment.

Another possible weakness of the Opinel, particularly with the smaller knives, is breaking the handle. I think of Opinel handles the same way that I think of axe and hatchet handles. They get stronger as they get bigger and the orientation of the grain will dictate how strong they are (grain that runs vertically, in line with the blade well is stronger). I've heard of people breaking 6s and 7s, suspect some weight lifter out there has broken an 8 but have a ton of confidence in the 9 and 10. In fact, I have an Opinel 10 with perfect vertical grain and it's the toughest folder I own by a large stretch, and that includes a large Case Sodbuster, several Buck 110/112s, a (Camillus made) Buck 307 and a bunch of older Schrades. Don't let the weight fool you. The are dang tough knives.

It's a very interesting comparison to think about. I wouldn't normally compare these knives as they're really different animals.

I would choose one over the other based on functionality as it fits into your day to day life and not worry about durability.
 
300bucks if you were to only have one older model 309 with the long pull, what year or year range would you want? I've recently become enamored with the Buck 309 and would like to get an older model. Thanks for the input.
300Bucks said:
I almost decided to abandon this thread but since good people have replied I will chime in.

I am not one to worry which of the knives mentioned is tougher than a billy goats parts. I determine usefulness by how a knife stands up to normal country boy/ outdoorsman actions. I don't intend to carry one of the above knives to rescue someone from being locked in a safe. Any of those mentioned will last a good spell if tended to a little, sharped NOT by a grinder, oiled in their joints, lint picked out of the blade well once a year or so and not using the tip of the clip blade as a screwdriver. I found a Buck 309 10 years ago in the middle of a western Kansas gravel county road. And even though no houses were in sight for as far as I could see in that flatland, it had been run over at least once. The back scale and liner was slightly bowed into the blade well, I bent it back farily straight with a screwdriver blade and the little two blade worked fine. Sorta like myself, we can get most jobs done but we have a couple of scars here and there.

Throw me out on one of the naked island TV shows, and I will be happy to have any of the three knives mentioned. Along with some bug juice. I have destroyed a couple of Buck folders in writing about their construction I will include a photo or two for your edification. 300

Looks solid to me. view thru bolster and blade pin.


This how tough is it deal is actually about money. If I paid a couple of hundred dollars for a folder then it better be well made and have some fancy fixin's on it. Jackknife would likely call it the Judge's knife. He stopped in the store while he was bird huntin' and was showing off his 'fancy' knife. Any of the knives mentioned above are made as strong as cost will allow but the cost is trying to be low enough so a kid can collect cans a good spell and go to the hardware store and buy their product. I think a bunch of knives here on Traditional forum are great knives and I would love to find one in the dirt of a crossroads someplace. But, I place value on the fact that any of them, well taken care of, will someday be owned by a person who will say 'this was his knife." Now that's a pocket knife.
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The long pull models were only made by Camillus.
Not sure when the 309 model started, but Buck pulled the manufacturing of the 309 into their own facility in 1985.
 
Oh, I guess if you force me. I would get the last one that had flat blades and had the oval shield with the knife, bolt and hammer. It won't have rivets in the scale and will be stamped BUCK, 309, U.S.A.. If you could get by with nail nics I would get one with a <,>,^, v date stamp after the 309. As they were made with 425m steel which I favor.
300
 
Jack Wanamaker said:
Thanks for these replies everyone. I still haven't answered the question for myself. All three models are still going strong.
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My reply to you, is get one of each and do your own testing, that's the fun of it all. I have a couple of each mentioned and love to use them all, but i'm the type of guy that rarely carries the same knife 2 days in a row, i am comfortable with the durability of all 3 mentioned.
 
Roamad said:
I'd have to say the Opinel is least durable of the three. Merely because it's *possible* the wood handle could split and come apart under heavy usage. Mind you, I've never heard of this happening.

But there are two other points in favor of the Opinel, not necessarily durability related: It's the only one available with a locking blade, and with a carbon steel blade. :D
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I've done it, albeit hard use but there is no way an Alox would have done that or even a regular SAK under the same circs. The opinel went in the garbage and I simply bought another, they're cheap enough!
 
Probably a Victorinox theoretically because you have a flat blade driver to use instead of a knife blade if you're in a pinch and need to perform some minor prying.
In general having drivers to use instead of blades is good, but then theres a reason the Sears 4 way driver keychain exists.
 
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