alternatives for a buffer

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grumpy_grinder

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Oct 2, 2015
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hey guys i did a search but can't find anything on alternatives to using a buffe. I'd rather use a safer alternative to get a polished finish. would a leather belt on the 2x72 work with compound? i've read of people using a hand drill with a knife in a vice. On various threads of making a buffer safer i've never seen anyone mention standing on a 90 degree to the buffer rather then infront. If i do use my buffer i think it will only be for handle work. I'm thinking taping a rag around the blade real tight with duct tape should protect if anything where to happen.

There seems to be alot of mixed feelings on buffers ...
 
Tape the blade up well, and maintain a firm grip on it, use a small low power buffer, like the ones from harbor freight, and you shouldn't have any worries. If you've got a solid grip on the knife, and aren't running a huge horsepower buffer, even if you turn the wrong way into the wheel it shouldn't be able to snatch it from you.

Stand at the correct orientation to the buffer, utilizing the working portion of the wheel. Ignore all that crap about turning the buffer backwards and using the top of the wheel, it's not safer, and there's a reason why that's not how it's done in industry, because you have less control and are more likely to interface your body into the wheels.

Practice with a block of wood with sharp corners, and intentionally learn what it feels like when the buff grabs the work. Once you understand it, you won't be startled by it, which I think is usually what happens and causes work to go flying, because you instinctively let go of the work.


There is no substitute for a buffer. I swore them off for years for the same reasons, but eventually capitulated, as there are certain finishes and tasks that can only be effectively accomplished with the correct tool. Most of your tools can hurt you badly, and I think the buffer is definitely dangerous but the level is overblown a bit, simply because of how badly things can go wrong when it's not respected.
 
Thanks javand. I've never heard of people running the wheel backwards. You don't think I could get similar results on a 2x72 leather belt and compound?
 
I believe true grit or somebody sells 2x72 felt belts that you can loadwith compound.

You can try using feathering adhesive with someone 16th cork gasket material and compound. Should work okay as long as you buff edge down.
 
grumpy_grinder said:
Thanks javand. I've never heard of people running the wheel backwards. You don't think I could get similar results on a 2x72 leather belt and compound?
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I don't, because part of what makes the buffer work for, and what you'll need for doing handle work, is it's ability to get into odd shapes with a loose buff, that's soft and wont gouge or groove.


You could probably polish flat ground blades with a leather belt with compound, but you won't be able to do handles, pins. If you tried, you'd likely do more harm than good.


The closest thing I've seen in that realm in belt format, is a "Felt Belt", which is soft and will hold compound reasonably well, you can slack belt with it and get semi-decent results if your handle shapes allow for access to every part with that belt, but it's still not the same. When buffing handles, you need to be able to buff from multiple angles to get the best finish, not just in one direction like you grind.


When doing domed pins for instance, you want to buff from literally every degree angle you can. Up down, left right, side to side, turning the work to approach it from each direction.
 
Get a couple plain cork belts from TruGrit and load one with green compound and the other with red.

You will get stuff shiney easy peasy
 
Big variable speed drill with a buffing wheel form Home Depot clamped into your bench vise. It will still snatch things away from you though. :eek: It works well on small or soft stuff like fittings or handle material, but for blades, my limited experience is that you need moe power. One method I have seen used that worked quite well with perhaps a little less danger to life and limb was what Claude Bouchonville does. He grinds to at least 400 using the graphite cloth backing on his platen which appear to prevent those "divots" we sometimes see from the joint bumping. He then goes to a belt driven buffer setup that is running not too fast. It has a Scotchbrite flap wheel on one side and a stitched buff on the other loaded with white compound. He doesn't necessarily go for a mirror polish, but anyone who has seen his knives in person or in pictures knows that they have a very nice finish.
 
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Are there different ways to polish steel? Sure. Are there many as efficient or similar to a buffer? Not exactly....

There are certain ways to mitigate the inherent dangers of a buffer, although, to be honest, I'm wondering if the dangers are not occasionally overhyped or exaggerated...
Can they be dangerous? Of course, but so can any tool.

Like any tool, you just have to be aware of what you're doing. Spiral sewn buffs seem to "grab" less than loose sewn. Slower buffers (1700 vs 3400) may give some additional control.
I run the buff towards me, but use the lower quarter of the wheel (between 3 and 6 o'clock). Grip the part securely and be mindful of points and sharp edges that will grab. Let the buff do the work.
Some makers wear heavy aprons and have shock absorbing mats under the buffer to keep the blades from bouncing back up if they are thrown. I've seen other makers with guards build around the back and top of the buffers.

The main thing is just having a good grip, and if you can't grip it, don't buff it.

Lastly, be VERY careful if buffing a sharpened knife, or better yet, don't buff sharpened knives. ;)
 
javand said:
Ignore all that crap about turning the buffer backwards and using the top of the wheel, it's not safer, and there's a reason why that's not how it's done in industry, because you have less control and are more likely to interface your body into the wheels.
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Javan, you have made some good points here and given sage advice,
Let me offer another perspective. I have a Baldor 332B which is 1800 RPM, at work in the machine shop we have two Baldor 333B which run at 3600 RPM
I would never buff with 3600 RPM, it's simply too fast for knifemaking IMO.

I know Murray Carter runs all his equipment including 5 grinders and 2 buffers and flap sanders all away from the user. This is based on the Japanese rotating water stone wheel which rotates away. So every piece of equipment in his shop is setup the same way, there is only one grinder wheel that Carter has where the wheel rotates towards.

Despite what I've read here about buffers, I've switched my buffer around, the wheel rotates away and I use the top quadrant. I flap sand 240/320 and buff/polish the blade with cloth wheels and compound. It works for me and I'm comfortable with this setup having learned it in Carter's shop. I'm still always careful and cognizant that the machine is unforgiving.

Buffers are used in industry for many things and can be setup various ways.

regards

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Yes, buffing thin or sharp edges can get a bit hairy. This is why I do 99% of my finishing with paper on my bench. I only buff for a minute or two at final finishing . . . mostly for handle finishing and not finishing blade surfaces.

I agree that spiral sewn cotton buffs (firm) are safer than loose buffs. 1750 rpm with 6" buffs are much safer than high horsepower 3500 rpm with 8" or larger buffs. If the user is ALWAYS conscious of safety and learns to work while staying out of the potential "line of fire", then buffers can be an effective tool.

Regarding safety devices, the best solution that I have heard (but not implemented yet) is a blocker bar installed behind the buff to block anything from being grabbed and swung back around toward the user.
 
3600 RPM buffers can be used with 4" or 6" buffs to reduce surface speeds. A 4" buff at 3600 has the same surface speed as an 8" at 1750 RPM.
Buffers are not the "death traps" that some make them out to be, and they can be some of the most useful tools in the shop.
Use them as intended- not backwards. That's a great way to get a knife stuck in your head.
People have been polishing steel on them for 100+ years. Buffing requires practice and experience. There is much more to polishing that chucking a drill in a vise!

If enough of you really would like to learn to use polishing equipment, let me know. We can do a thread here.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
3600 RPM buffers can be used with 4" or 6" buffs to reduce surface speeds. A 4" buff at 3600 has the same surface speed as an 8" at 1750 RPM.
Buffers are not the "death traps" that some make them out to be, and they can be some of the most useful tools in the shop.
Use them as intended- not backwards. That's a great way to get a knife stuck in your head.
People have been polishing steel on them for 100+ years. Buffing requires practice and experience. There is much more to polishing that chucking a drill in a vise!

If enough of you really would like to learn to use polishing equipment, let me know. We can do a thread here.
Click to expand...


Agree 100% with Bill. To clarify what he said, RPM is an arbitrary quantifier we always see mentioned in threads about buffers. The relevant one, is SFM (surface foot per minute) and just like belts, certain buffs, compounds, processes, lend themselves to certain SFMs.


FWIW I do most of my final handle polishing, on the rare sensitive materials I love like ivory, horn, pearl, and vintage plastics and phenolics, with a loose cotton buff (6") running at 3600 rpm. Admittedly, with a light touch, and a firm hold, on a low HP (1/3 maybe?) buffer that I can resist if it gets grabby, and I always tape my blade edges up heavily if I'm stuck working on a knife with an otherwise finished blade.

To be fair however, I don't do buffed blade finishes. Although I will buff fittings and certain components of a blade, often before taking them back to a fine satin finish.

Bill, I'd personally love to see you start a thread, I get acceptable results but I know you've got lots of insight in this realm.
 
I'm pretty new to this but I run a now discontinued Jet 1HP long arm buffer that runs at 1750 and it's really no big deal. My 2x72 has gotten me a couple times and I've yet to have an issue with the buffer. Just remember to follow the advice of those that have already posted and never buff edge in or it will grab and do some exciting things. However, since I don't like mirror finishes, I now only use mine for handle work. The lower speed really helps and also keep it from burning the blade if you're not used to using one. You can even sharpen a blade to a razors edge with a buffer. I did and didn't realize it till I cut myself with what I thought was an unsharpend knife.

I also wear goggles and a face shield as well as a heavy leather apron just in case.
 
Its not nearly as efficient and may not give quite the same results but on tricky little shapes for guards and bolsters and such Ive had results Im happy with , clamping the knife blade in a vice and using those tiny little buffing wheels you can get for the Dremel. Im pretty careful and respectful of all the tools that can hurt you in the shop ,heck just dropping a sharp knife can be a bit dicey sometimes, but Im a bit scared of buffers and hence dont have one.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
3600 RPM buffers can be used with 4" or 6" buffs to reduce surface speeds. A 4" buff at 3600 has the same surface speed as an 8" at 1750 RPM.
Buffers are not the "death traps" that some make them out to be, and they can be some of the most useful tools in the shop.
Use them as intended- not backwards. That's a great way to get a knife stuck in your head.
People have been polishing steel on them for 100+ years. Buffing requires practice and experience. There is much more to polishing that chucking a drill in a vise!

If enough of you really would like to learn to use polishing equipment, let me know. We can do a thread here.
Click to expand...

Bill I'd love that , I'm always looking to learn. Having a thread on buffers and buffing might clear out some misconceptions out there and teach a few people a thing or two.


Grumpy_grinder
 
Bill DeShivs said:
3600 RPM buffers can be used with 4" or 6" buffs to reduce surface speeds. A 4" buff at 3600 has the same surface speed as an 8" at 1750 RPM.
Buffers are not the "death traps" that some make them out to be, and they can be some of the most useful tools in the shop.
Use them as intended- not backwards. That's a great way to get a knife stuck in your head.
People have been polishing steel on them for 100+ years. Buffing requires practice and experience. There is much more to polishing that chucking a drill in a vise!

If enough of you really would like to learn to use polishing equipment, let me know. We can do a thread here.
Click to expand...
I would like a thread like that.
 
OK. I'll charge up the video glasses soon, get the camera out, and see if I can come up with some coherent copy.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
OK. I'll charge up the video glasses soon, get the camera out, and see if I can come up with some coherent copy.
Click to expand...

I think we should all pitch in to get Bill a cheap video cam and a stand. I keep an eye out for anything on youtube from you but those glasses give me motion sickness. ;)
 
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