Am I abusing my ESEE-6? (pic)

I like my Lansky. Anything 4" and under gets a Lansky, 4" -9" gets a Norton 9" benchstone with a DMT guide. 9" and over gets a Puck (Lansky product). I try to keep all my edges on 25 degrees, as I feel it gives me a fine enough edge, but thick enough to give strength. My friend has the Sharpmaker, and I've used it a little. It works. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I also prefer a sabre edge over a convex. Call me weird. I've had convexed edges and they do perform well, and the edge retention is fantastic, I just prefer sabre. Moose
 
Why are the rolls toward the tip? This is not the area that gets used during chopping/batoning. What were you doing that rolled that part of the blade? Regardless of what others say the edge should not roll that extensively if used as you say. I have a ton of experience with ESEE 1095 and while I've had some deformation of the steel along the edge I've never seen the edge rolling in your pictures unless I've hit something harder than wood.

It's from chopping. The wood chopped was about the thickness of a large coffee can. It had a pretty solid core to it as well.


I'm 99% sure they are chips. I've got the edge sharp and straight now, but there's still little chips missing.
 
I like my Lansky. Anything 4" and under gets a Lansky, 4" -9" gets a Norton 9" benchstone with a DMT guide. 9" and over gets a Puck (Lansky product). I try to keep all my edges on 25 degrees, as I feel it gives me a fine enough edge, but thick enough to give strength. My friend has the Sharpmaker, and I've used it a little. It works. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I also prefer a sabre edge over a convex. Call me weird. I've had convexed edges and they do perform well, and the edge retention is fantastic, I just prefer sabre. Moose

Yeah I put a 25 degree edge on the 6 now. Hopefully that will help keep any rolling/chipping down to a minimum.
 
That's some pretty serious wear & tear for not hitting stones, etc. If that happened under hard (but practical) use, I'm surprised. I heard their knives are tough as nails. Chopping is pretty hard on most edges though...
 
My RC-3 has a dent like that in one spot, and I have had it for all of less than a week (came in Friday, went to a wedding, played with knife the whole time). This is my first post, but does this sort of thing happen often to these knives? Edge rolling or whatever?
 
My RC-3 has a dent like that in one spot, and I have had it for all of less than a week (came in Friday, went to a wedding, played with knife the whole time). This is my first post, but does this sort of thing happen often to these knives? Edge rolling or whatever?

Welcome :D

I bought a $400 Busse and had the "edge rolling" or "chipping" happen to me within 2 months. :eek: / :foot:
 
So you're using a Lansky? With a Lanksy, the angle on a curve is going to be more acute than along a straight edge, assuming you keep it clamped parallel to the spine. That can explain why there are so many dents/rolls along the curve compared to the straight edge.

Because of the design, a Lansky is closest to the true angle at center, and off from that, the angle is distorted to a smaller measure. A curved edge means you have to swing the arm further from center, which is why using a Lansky "how it's supposed to be used" actually makes for a thinner angle at the curved tip, and which is potentially why you have more dents there than the rest of the blade.

Here are pics for clarification. Is this what you're doing?

jDIHE.jpg


To get the curved part as close to the rest as possible, take anything straight (I use a sharpie in the following pic) and put it at the center of the curved edge. Then, clamp the Lansky parallel to that at the same distance from the edge as you did the rest. Here's a picture:

ewxOT.jpg


Because a Lansky is going to put a thinner angle away from center, we find the center of the sweep of the curve and use that as the origin of the Lansky. The Sharpie just helps to make sure the clamp is put on straight in relation to the center of the curve. I've had good luck doing this with larger blades.
 
So you're using a Lansky? With a Lanksy, the angle on a curve is going to be more acute than along a straight edge, assuming you keep it clamped parallel to the spine. That can explain why there are so many dents/rolls along the curve compared to the straight edge.

Because of the design, a Lansky is closest to the true angle at center, and off from that, the angle is distorted to a smaller measure. A curved edge means you have to swing the arm further from center, which is why using a Lansky "how it's supposed to be used" actually makes for a thinner angle at the curved tip, and which is potentially why you have more dents there than the rest of the blade.

Here are pics for clarification. Is this what you're doing?

jDIHE.jpg


To get the curved part as close to the rest as possible, take anything straight (I use a sharpie in the following pic) and put it at the center of the curved edge. Then, clamp the Lansky parallel to that at the same distance from the edge as you did the rest. Here's a picture:

ewxOT.jpg


Because a Lansky is going to put a thinner angle away from center, we find the center of the sweep of the curve and use that as the origin of the Lansky. The Sharpie just helps to make sure the clamp is put on straight in relation to the center of the curve.

This flew over my head.
I just bought a Lansky too

:confused:
 
the only sharpening experience I have is 'freehand' on stones and belts..

to eliminate your problem completely, throw your sharpener in the trash.......

go with stones, or better yet put a convex edge on it and you'll never look back I have machetes do that from factory grind, I convex them and they'll last in the field forever before needing a touch-up..................

convex it, if it does it after that I'll buy your knife at market value.. no joke...

how's that for absolute??:D
 
the only sharpening experience I have is 'freehand' on stones and belts..

to eliminate your problem completely, throw your sharpener in the trash.......

go with stones, or better yet put a convex edge on it and you'll never look back I have machetes do that from factory grind, I convex them and they'll last in the field forever before needing a touch-up..................

convex it, if it does it after that I'll buy your knife at market value.. no joke...

how's that for absolute??:D

Guy with the mouse pad sharpener? Gotta try that..
 
My RC-3 has a dent like that in one spot, and I have had it for all of less than a week (came in Friday, went to a wedding, played with knife the whole time). This is my first post, but does this sort of thing happen often to these knives? Edge rolling or whatever?

The RC3 is of thinner stock so will be more prone to such, but in general this 1095 is very though and is pretty good at resisting edge rolling. You can tell if a edge is rolled by raking your fingernail across it-if it gets caught, you know you've rolled your edge. Again-softstones or a honing steel should make the world right again, whereas if this were high RC stainless steel it would have just chipped right off. You're not looking to remove all the material, moreso just mushing it back into it's more or less original place. That's the beauty of high carbon-it's so much more forgiving with rough use...
 
kreole, that makes sense, I will give it a try.





the only sharpening experience I have is 'freehand' on stones and belts..

to eliminate your problem completely, throw your sharpener in the trash.......

go with stones, or better yet put a convex edge on it and you'll never look back I have machetes do that from factory grind, I convex them and they'll last in the field forever before needing a touch-up..................

convex it, if it does it after that I'll buy your knife at market value.. no joke...

how's that for absolute??:D

I've thought about convexing the edge. Got a link to any good tutorials?
Thanks.
 
I finally had something happen to my junglas that was Very simalar to yours, except smaller and in the middle of the blade. This was after 3 months of use each weekend. So now I finally get to see how sharp I can make my ESEE with my Norton stone. (The only stone I use, but with a choice of grits) But as I was carrying my hone steel with me (an old chisel shaped old timer sharade) took a few swipes with the hone....And bingo. It went right back to popin hair. So it seems to me by my adventure and the looks of it, that I would say "Yeah its not chipped, just needs a hone and good to go" But if that does not work? I would put it on a Good stone and 1095 sharpens up very nice, and with ease. As far as the "Lansky system" Yeah put them at 18-20 degs. and try out your new sledge hammer on them to test ceramic hardness :D Or have fun and paint them like pencils, to watch your friends tear up paper trying to write a note. Anyways just a hone worked for me, so I can't tell ya how easy it really is to sharpen yours. enjoy edgy :thumbup:
 
So you're using a Lansky? With a Lanksy, the angle on a curve is going to be more acute than along a straight edge, assuming you keep it clamped parallel to the spine. That can explain why there are so many dents/rolls along the curve compared to the straight edge.

Because of the design, a Lansky is closest to the true angle at center, and off from that, the angle is distorted to a smaller measure. A curved edge means you have to swing the arm further from center, which is why using a Lansky "how it's supposed to be used" actually makes for a thinner angle at the curved tip, and which is potentially why you have more dents there than the rest of the blade.

Here are pics for clarification. Is this what you're doing?

jDIHE.jpg


To get the curved part as close to the rest as possible, take anything straight (I use a sharpie in the following pic) and put it at the center of the curved edge. Then, clamp the Lansky parallel to that at the same distance from the edge as you did the rest. Here's a picture:

ewxOT.jpg


Because a Lansky is going to put a thinner angle away from center, we find the center of the sweep of the curve and use that as the origin of the Lansky. The Sharpie just helps to make sure the clamp is put on straight in relation to the center of the curve. I've had good luck doing this with larger blades.

kreole, well done. I have never seen it put a better way. I learned the hard way, so, jokes on me. Thanks for the info, that is good stuff for the Lansky users. Moose
 
This flew over my head.
I just bought a Lansky too

:confused:

Ok, let me explain a little better. It's all about triangles (hope you like geometry!). Here is the important triangle highlighted:

5AZu8.jpg


The Lanksy's angle measure is where the stone meets the blade. These numbers are necessarily inexact. If you clamp the knife closer to the spine, then the bottom leg of the triangle is shorter, and the distance from where the metal rod goes into the guide to where the stone meets the edge (the leg of the triangle going from the top left to bottom right) is shorter than if you clamped it further towards the edge. Here is a picture showing the triangles:

AJTja.jpg


The blue legs are an example triangle of clamping it closer to the edge. More of the blade is hidden in the clamp, so the bottom leg is shorter, and the top leg has to be shorter. The orange legs are if you clamp it more towards the edge. In that case, more of the blade is out past the clamp, making the bottom leg longer and the top leg also. Basic trigonometry shows the orange triangle needs to have a more acute angle (thinner edge), while the blue will result in a more obtuse angle (thicker edge).

So, where you clamp it matters. The reason it matters is the length of the legs of the triangles change depending on where it's clamped. That is the basic idea of what I was talking about, but for a different reason than how close the clamp is to the edge of the blade.

Here is the clamp from a different angle. Think about how the previous triangle looks from this direction. The top and bottom legs will overlap, while the vertical leg would appear to be a point.

5AqBm.jpg


Pretend we can't move the clamp for a second, so we can compare what the Lansky does to an edge when the clamp isn't moved. The shortest top leg (go back to the previous triangle pic--I'm talking about the diagonal one from top left to bottom right) is right through the middle of the clamp to the edge. Scroll down to the next pic for a second to see it; it's the red one (it looks crooked just because I took the pic from a stupid angle, but notice how it goes right through the middle of the clamp). Now, any triangle with the legs either left or right of that red one are longer (this is a result of the Pythagorean Theorem, if you want to know the math behind it), which, just like before, means the angle is going to be thinner. Scroll back down to the next pic and look at the blue line. Even though it's on the straight edge, it will be a slightly thinner angle there. Honestly, it's only very slightly thinner, and there is so little difference in the edge angle that it really doesn't matter. Where it really matters, as this thread shows, is along the curve of the blade. By the time we get to the curve, we're so far off center that the angle does change quite a bit. The green line in the pic down below shows that.

APIDh.jpg


Now just for fun, I put a dot where the Lansky guide hole might be and measured the straight line to the edge of the blade, one to the point of the blade nearest to the handle, and to the tip of the blade. The results are less than surprising, with the straight line being shortest (making it the thickest angle) and the length to the tip longest (making it the thinnest angle):

y7vLe.jpg


So, since the angle stays most accurate at the straight line through the middle of the clamp, what I suggested before (and what I do with big knives) is to reposition the clamp to the center of the curve of the blade to reprofile the edge there. Doing that will make it as close as Lansky-possible to the same size angle as the straight part of the blade. Remember that the distance from the clamp to the edge also matters, so you want to clamp it the same distance as you had it before you moved it.

For really long blades, it might be worth moving it a few more times, but if you aren't OCD about your blade angle and/or aren't having chipping/bending issues, just clamp it right in the middle of the blade.
 
love geometry but that just seems so overly complicated to me, sharpening is much easier freehand. of course this is coming from someone who's never used a sharpening system so ymmv, I've always used 'freehand' geometry and its worked for me, I have good moments and bad ones. I've learned its pending the blades geometry/size/shape that can really throw you off..

Semper, sorry I don't.. but.............................................

google's your friend;) have fun..


cya,
 
Oh Boy. I think I'm just gonna stick with my brute force math, and put oil on my stones, and just put the edge on. Now I remember why I got rid of those thangs. Just my thang with fast and easy. Its been workin every day I do it. I'm thinkin along with how Daze is ah...summin it all up. :D
Enjoy edgy :thumbup:

Besides ..whats that sayin? "Man those guys have stones"?
 
I'm just curious if this is normal for an ESEE knife. I've had it happen to my Gerber LMF II before (a much larger chip than these), but I don't know how common it is for an ESEE.

My ESEE-6 gets the odd ding too, but just sharpen her up and get her back out there !:thumbup:

Here's some INFI after my last outing. A few chips, a few rolls, a few more stains... all good. 15 minutes on the belt sander and she'll be ready for the next outing.:thumbup:

bussedamage.jpg
 
15 minutes on a belt sander, and you'll have an INFI toothpick.

Semper Paratus, you are not sharpening all the way to the edge, or the edge damage would be gone.
There's two bevels showing in the pics, but it appears the higher one is from you trying to resharpen at a lower angle.
The little chips could have simply been from a wire edge breaking off, but again, they would not be there if the knife was completely resharpened.

Some knives do get "over-sharpened" by the manufacturer, and the factory edge is sometimes the problem. They can have a wire edge, or that portion of the edge might have gotten decarburized, causing it to weaken, and be more susceptible to rolling and fracture.
I think you need to sharpen that knife at whatever angle you choose(and do heed kreole's sharpening advice if using the Lansky), and take it all the way to the edge on each side so there are no chips remaining, then use the knife again and see what happens. Use a marker to blacken the edge, and make sure your sharpening completely removes the marker, and a burr is formed on the opposite side.
 
Back
Top