I've used a DMT diafold, DMT credit card sharpener. Hewlett credit card sharpener, and sandpaper polishing paper and cardboard with polishing compound on it. I've been practicing for 6 months and am just getting consistent results (I'm an old dog.). I'd suggest the diafold or credit card sharpener in 325 grit for use in the field.
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Am I asking to much of my RAT???
- Thread starter adam0321
- Start date
you need more then one stone though dont you? espeically if your reprofilling the knife or its gonna take you a very long time I would imagine.
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- Aug 20, 2009
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I feel like I have a steady hand and I used to work as a gun smith. So I am meticulios. But this is getting on my damn nerves. I e-mail Richard. Maybe he can tell me what I am doing wrong. I am intending on making a video and putting it on youtube so maybe you guys can tell me what I am doing wrong.
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Don't you think one of those double sided Norton SiC stones will give a pretty good working edge? 1095 would also be easy to rebevel on the coarse side. Good, inexpensive stone to learn on., IMHO. The OP won't be out much if he decides freehand is not his thing.
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Adam,
first of all, its all good Bro, and thanks for your service!
Take it easy, go out and get some sharpening stones..and some diamond stones (DMT Steels) and practice using your hands and eyes to get it right. Gizmo's will not help you when you are in sh*t. I would get larger stones as it will make it easier with a 7 inch blade. They are not always cheap, but you can find old Nortons on the "bay" and at thrift stores. I have a good size pile of sharpening stones and gizmos..I buy as many stones as I do knives really.
For me personally, the longer the blade, the more of a challenge it can be to use a stone. If I am tuning up one of my choppers (over 7 inch) then I use a steel. 7inch and under, I use stones.
I would NOT convex the edge (not starting an argument about which is the best edge here) I would just learn to sharpen first, on a stone, and with steels. Strops are important, just to remove the bur, but when you get good at it, you will start stropping on your pant legs and anything near to you while you are sharpening.
I would love to say I started out with a stone and a knife and trial and error, but I had my father and grandfather to teach me...and when I was a teenager at hunting camp...several guys would show me their methods. Everyone sharpens a bit differently, but the basic mechanics are always the same.
I think that having a pile of advice and no "dirt time" will not get you there anyways. You already started on the RAT7 so I would stick with it until I got it right. Good luck.
first of all, its all good Bro, and thanks for your service!
Take it easy, go out and get some sharpening stones..and some diamond stones (DMT Steels) and practice using your hands and eyes to get it right. Gizmo's will not help you when you are in sh*t. I would get larger stones as it will make it easier with a 7 inch blade. They are not always cheap, but you can find old Nortons on the "bay" and at thrift stores. I have a good size pile of sharpening stones and gizmos..I buy as many stones as I do knives really.
For me personally, the longer the blade, the more of a challenge it can be to use a stone. If I am tuning up one of my choppers (over 7 inch) then I use a steel. 7inch and under, I use stones.
I would NOT convex the edge (not starting an argument about which is the best edge here) I would just learn to sharpen first, on a stone, and with steels. Strops are important, just to remove the bur, but when you get good at it, you will start stropping on your pant legs and anything near to you while you are sharpening.
I would love to say I started out with a stone and a knife and trial and error, but I had my father and grandfather to teach me...and when I was a teenager at hunting camp...several guys would show me their methods. Everyone sharpens a bit differently, but the basic mechanics are always the same.
I think that having a pile of advice and no "dirt time" will not get you there anyways. You already started on the RAT7 so I would stick with it until I got it right. Good luck.
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- Jun 9, 2006
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+1. I agree with this.
I never used the Norton SiC stones to be honest, not sure what grit those are. from what I found, http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waters...tening/dp/B000XK0FMU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top its a bit pricey. I have about 7 or 8 different stones (a few double sided) myself as well as a lansky guided system and a sharpmaker and a crap load of sandpaper but to be honest, none ever gave me an edge I was satisfied with... all gave me workable edges which would slice paper and a few would push cut plain printer paper but I had a hard time getting past that stage which I knew was possible after seeing videos of others which obviously had more skill then me at the time. I'd say out of all of those systems, the Lansky gave me the sharpest edges but that's nothing to what I can do now!
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for me, I would get a cheap kitchen knife to learn on. your Rat7 did cost you like 100 bucks and a cheap knife is like 3 dollars and will save a lot of your metal rat7 while you learn and make mistakes.
that would be great.
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- Jan 2, 2009
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thanks for your service to our country. If you send it to me and pay for return shipping, ill sharpen it for free using my tormek super grind 2000. I can get your knife to pop hair off your arm. PM me for my address. thanks
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- Mar 7, 2001
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- 4,608
Yes, the steel on my knives are not premium, but medium workable ones (at 57-59HRC, not soft either). That's besides the point though.
Take the generous offer to sharpen it free if you're pressed for time. The learning takes a while. It's good that you have mechanical background, so you have steady hand with you already.
Keep it up, don't give up, but don't rush it
Take the generous offer to sharpen it free if you're pressed for time. The learning takes a while. It's good that you have mechanical background, so you have steady hand with you already.
Keep it up, don't give up, but don't rush it
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Don't give up.
I would get a diamond bench stone versus a traditional arkansas stone which use natural materials. With a stone, you are sharpening just like you are cutting with the edge or trying to take off a thin slice so to speak.
Angles.... I still have trouble with this, but I have been doing it a long time. Consistancy is the key. With a stone... place knife vertical with the edge on the stone (that's 90 degrees); split that in half (that's 45 degrees), split it again (22.5 degrees or a tad less) and that should be about right for you RAT. To convince yourself concerning angles, get a cheap protractor and use the knife and look at the angle number. Some people use coins but I get confused with this approach as I l think more in terms of real numbers and angles. If you like, mark the plastic protractor at the 20 degree point so you can see it easily.
The DMT sales rep showed me the visual approach on angles and I find it useful because you can always go back and re-set the angle visually if you feel like you are going too acute (low angle). You will often get a sharper feeling edge with a small angle of the blade to the stone, but the edge is much more fagile than using something in the 20 degree area. You have a big knife; I would not go below about 20 degrees.
Start sharpening with a coarse stone first. After you get burrs on both sides and it really begins to feel sharp to touch, switch to fine grit which is about 600 grit sand paper. I often will stop at the fine side of the stone, but I do have DMT Extra-Fine too.
The DMT stones are fairly expensive which is why I have the smaller size for the Extra-Fine. Eventually I will get the larger stone (about $100) in extra fine and fine, but you know how priorities are.
I would practice of a cheap knife with a shorter blade first, but you are already using the RAT. Go for it. Be patient. Do not press down on the stone with the knife trying to hurry the sharpening task. You can strip the diamonds off the stone. Use light pressure or about the weight of the knife or slightly more.
I would get a diamond bench stone versus a traditional arkansas stone which use natural materials. With a stone, you are sharpening just like you are cutting with the edge or trying to take off a thin slice so to speak.
Angles.... I still have trouble with this, but I have been doing it a long time. Consistancy is the key. With a stone... place knife vertical with the edge on the stone (that's 90 degrees); split that in half (that's 45 degrees), split it again (22.5 degrees or a tad less) and that should be about right for you RAT. To convince yourself concerning angles, get a cheap protractor and use the knife and look at the angle number. Some people use coins but I get confused with this approach as I l think more in terms of real numbers and angles. If you like, mark the plastic protractor at the 20 degree point so you can see it easily.
The DMT sales rep showed me the visual approach on angles and I find it useful because you can always go back and re-set the angle visually if you feel like you are going too acute (low angle). You will often get a sharper feeling edge with a small angle of the blade to the stone, but the edge is much more fagile than using something in the 20 degree area. You have a big knife; I would not go below about 20 degrees.
Start sharpening with a coarse stone first. After you get burrs on both sides and it really begins to feel sharp to touch, switch to fine grit which is about 600 grit sand paper. I often will stop at the fine side of the stone, but I do have DMT Extra-Fine too.
The DMT stones are fairly expensive which is why I have the smaller size for the Extra-Fine. Eventually I will get the larger stone (about $100) in extra fine and fine, but you know how priorities are.
I would practice of a cheap knife with a shorter blade first, but you are already using the RAT. Go for it. Be patient. Do not press down on the stone with the knife trying to hurry the sharpening task. You can strip the diamonds off the stone. Use light pressure or about the weight of the knife or slightly more.
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- Aug 19, 2007
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- 39,259
If it were me, I would send it to Richard J and have him put a good edge on it. Once it is sharp you should be able to maintain it. He sure helped me get my edges right.
Ebbtide
Gold Member
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- Aug 20, 1999
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Wrong?
1st you must learn to do something properly, then you practice.
This is not hard. All you have to do is do it. Learn by doing. Lots of good advice here.
You say you are in Force Recon... ask one of the old salts to show you how.
In person demonstrations are way better than written description.
Do.
Learn.
Practice.
No shortcuts.
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- Nov 20, 2005
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- 19,385
Once you get a pretty good edge, you can easly touch it up with a ceramic V type sharpener (with the ceramic rods). I like those a lot and so simple to use. But you need something more aggressive to start with.
Many people have trouble sharpening knives. Don't give up. I started sharpening pocket knives when I was a kid in elementary school. Always had trouble with big knives however back then. I need to sharpen up my Condor Golok now. I nicked up the factory edge pretty good on work stuff and it's time to give it it's first sharpening.
Many people have trouble sharpening knives. Don't give up. I started sharpening pocket knives when I was a kid in elementary school. Always had trouble with big knives however back then. I need to sharpen up my Condor Golok now. I nicked up the factory edge pretty good on work stuff and it's time to give it it's first sharpening.
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- Sep 17, 2010
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A few tips that may help. If it hasn't been suggested yet. Take a permament marker and mark the entire length of your edge. Then when you are sharpening you will be able to see if you are actually getting the very edge or if you are only getting the back bevel of the edge. Also when looking at the edge lots of good light will help. Hold the blade so you can get light reflecting off the very edge. The more light you get reflecting off the edge in a glistening line, that means the knife is still dull. Once it is sharp no light should really glisten at all of the actual cutting edge.
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- Mar 7, 2001
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- 4,608
If not mistaken, Richard offers his sharpening service free of charge to anyone in active duty.
I sorta always assumed the military sharpened all of their soldier's knifes and loaded/made all their bullets as well as provided all their guns, especially when putting them in a combat situation. What do you actually get when you join the military? do you still get bayonets at least?
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Since I haven't seen anyone really respond to your question about the Spyderco kit, I will answer that one for you.
Like you, I had a lot of trouble with my technique (although I don't think I ever managed to work on one long enough to leave it unable to cut cord), and I also came on here for help. I ended up bookmarking a couple threads, which you may find helpful, but I did end up buying a Sharpmaker. Out of all of my knife related purchases, that's the single best one that I made.
For starters, I learned that it REALLY matters what angle you're sharpening at. If you don't keep the angle perfectly straight, the edge just doesn't happen the way you want it to. That's why I could never get my knives shaving sharp, and I'd venture to guess that you're having the same problem. The Sharpmaker makes that much easier. You just have to keep the knife straight up and down, which is MUCH easier to see, and the rest of it happens pretty naturally. You can also sharpen serrated blades with it, so it's a handy thing to have. It's very easy to use, even if your technique sucks as much as mine did (and I gather yours as well).
I would definitely recommend getting the Diamond and Ultra Fine rods along with the main kit. You'll need the diamond rods to reprofile your edge, since otherwise it will take forever, and the UF will be great once you've refined your technique a bit. I got a knife shaving sharp on my very first try, so I think the learning curve is probably pretty quick.
While I agree that hand sharpening is a good skill to have, and I'm sure Richard J can put a crazy sharp edge on your knife, speaking from personal experience I don't think either is really your best option. Hand sharpening is very hard to pick up until you start getting a sense for sharpening, and the Sharpmaker will provide that sense pretty well. When you get the angle steady enough, and you can start hearing/feeling when you need to switch to the next step, you'll find hand sharpening much easier.
And while Richard J will put the best edge on your knife that you've ever seen, you can't really send in your knives to him all the time, and they'll last a lot longer if you know how to touch them up.
So, in short, ABSOLUTELY GET A SHARPMAKER. I highly doubt you'll regret the purchase.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/732635-The-first-sharpening
Like you, I had a lot of trouble with my technique (although I don't think I ever managed to work on one long enough to leave it unable to cut cord), and I also came on here for help. I ended up bookmarking a couple threads, which you may find helpful, but I did end up buying a Sharpmaker. Out of all of my knife related purchases, that's the single best one that I made.
For starters, I learned that it REALLY matters what angle you're sharpening at. If you don't keep the angle perfectly straight, the edge just doesn't happen the way you want it to. That's why I could never get my knives shaving sharp, and I'd venture to guess that you're having the same problem. The Sharpmaker makes that much easier. You just have to keep the knife straight up and down, which is MUCH easier to see, and the rest of it happens pretty naturally. You can also sharpen serrated blades with it, so it's a handy thing to have. It's very easy to use, even if your technique sucks as much as mine did (and I gather yours as well).
I would definitely recommend getting the Diamond and Ultra Fine rods along with the main kit. You'll need the diamond rods to reprofile your edge, since otherwise it will take forever, and the UF will be great once you've refined your technique a bit. I got a knife shaving sharp on my very first try, so I think the learning curve is probably pretty quick.
While I agree that hand sharpening is a good skill to have, and I'm sure Richard J can put a crazy sharp edge on your knife, speaking from personal experience I don't think either is really your best option. Hand sharpening is very hard to pick up until you start getting a sense for sharpening, and the Sharpmaker will provide that sense pretty well. When you get the angle steady enough, and you can start hearing/feeling when you need to switch to the next step, you'll find hand sharpening much easier.
And while Richard J will put the best edge on your knife that you've ever seen, you can't really send in your knives to him all the time, and they'll last a lot longer if you know how to touch them up.
So, in short, ABSOLUTELY GET A SHARPMAKER. I highly doubt you'll regret the purchase.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/732635-The-first-sharpening