Am I Being Too Hard on CRKT Knives?

[Confederate]

Over the past six months, I've become really down on CRKT knives. Actually it's the blades I don't like, not the rest of the knives.

In fact, I wrote the company yesterday, not that I think they'll listen, but I had to find an outlet for my frustration.

First, their wretched chisel grind blades with bevels on the left side, which make them a bear for right-handers like me. Not long ago I went out and got some wood that blown down after a storm, then set out whittling just to see how well some of my knives cut. All of my V-grind knives cut like champs. No problems—nice, precise cuts. Even my "control" knife, a cheap Maxam, cut fairly well. My CRKT Desert Cruiser, however, was abominable. The wood kept sliding all over the bevel and I had to use sharper angles to get any bite. Fine for cutting out large chunks, but lousy for just stripping off bark. In fact, it was quite frustrating.

My other knives, Cold Steel Voyagers in 4- and 5-inch blades did a fine job of cutting everything, but then, they always have been fine cutters. They also sharpen practically by staring at them! My little Spyderco Native also did a great job. In fact, it's point made wood work quite easy in that it could easily dig out pits and knots in the wood. The Desert Cruiser, however, only did well when I shifted it to my left hand. I'm not a southpaw, but the knife did a fine job when I used it as a left-handed knife. When using it right-handed, the beveled portion of the blade would slide along the wood without ever biting into it, except using sharper angles.

Another thing I don't like about CRKT is that for all their chisel grind knives, you'd think CRKT's Slidesharp knife sharpener would work on their own knives, but nay, the little plastic guides are all designed for double-grind blades! Sharpening the CRKTs is easy enough, but one is better off just using a medium ceramic stone. The odd thing is, CRKT reps have told customers to sharpen their chisel grind knives as they would a double, or v-grind. I actually tried this to see what would happen and the knife's angles shifted so much that the blade became almost unusable.

I also had an old Winchester 1335 folder, which was about the second or third locking folder I ever owned. It has a heavy handle and a cheap "surgical stainless" blade with a chisel grind, but the grind was on the right side of the blade. When I used that knife to cut the same wood bark off the branches, it cut much easier and much more efficiently than my Desert Cruiser. To me it's obvious, having a chisel grind on the right side of the blade is better for right handers and having it on the left is better for southpaws.

My only other gripe with the knife is that the AUS8 steel used in CRKT's knives tend to be softer than that used by Cold Steel and others. I have an M21-04 CRKT that is one of my favorite knives. I also have three or four of their titanium knives, which are gorgeous, but have CG blades and bumpy serrations.

Has anyone else had similar issues with their CRKTs?

CRKT Desert Cruisers, gold and silver. Note the serrations
and the chisel grind blades. Imagine stripping bark from a
branch using your right hand to cut with.

This is the old Winchester 1335. The bevel is on
the right side of this knife, which was designed
for right-handers.

The CRKT M21-04 is a great knife.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Chisel grinds simply don't cut as well as a double ground blade. I like them for certain things, but they have limitations. You could always reprofile your blades if needed.

I have noticed that CRKT does not seem to harden their blades sufficiently. I've had a few that had extremely poor edge retention. The AUS-8 blades are better, but not by much. I generally stay away from CRKT folders after having 3 or 4 of their liner locks fail.

 

[Kazeryu]

Chisel grinds are OK, the problem is that most production companies don't realise they are grinding left-handed knives.

 

[JTR357]

This one is some of of CRKT's best work IMO.This one just sold & I'm already beginning to rue my decisionVOODOO 154CM

 

[Lycosa]

Confederate---Have Tom Krein or Pohan Leu make you a true chisel-grind. Use it and then report back.

 

[bdws1975]

personally, I find nothing attractive about CRKT. Not that they are BAD, but they don't compare even to a spyderco or benchmade.

Just my .02

brett

 

[Shaolin]

I also have a CRKT M16-12Z, Emergency Rescue, it's an ok blade, but I'm not thrilled about it.

 

[Confederate]

You know, I have a M16-13Z and it's the closest thing to a folding steak knife that I have. It's not a bad knife, really, and my AUS6 blade is okay—having one in AUS4 would be the pits.

Lycosa, I have no doubt that Tom Krein or Pohan Leu could make me a great chisel grind, but I'm not in any huge need for a chisel grind. If I had them do one for me, I'd say, please put the bevel on the right side of the knife, not the left. Having the grind on the left does have one advantage, BTW. It makes sharpening super easy. You hold the sharpener at an angle and then you just whittle away at it. I got both the Desert Cruiser and a cheap no name knife razor sharp doing it that way (in fact, one of them cut me slightly). Still, even with a sharp blade, cutting wood right handed was still a bear. Again, left handed it did a fine job. Still won't cut straight, either.

I don't know. I suppose the makers think that most of these things will be used for opening up packages and for self defense. But if trying to slash with a knife, I'd like it to be double ground unless it had fine serrations. I have a Recon 1 (old model) with a 440A blade and I keep it RS (ridiculously sharp), and it's a piece of cake. I've thought of reprofiling my CRKT knives, but since I'm not really carrying them anymore, I probably won't go through the trouble.

I like the designs, plus I like the LAWKS. I do think that CRKT knives with AUS8 aren't quite up to snuff with some of the other knife makers, and I see little reason why they would want their steel soft. Is it cheaper to make it that way?

 

[missin_hobo]

I've owned about six Columbia River knives, mostly from the Carson series. Only one has endured as a favorite.

The M16-EDC Spearpoint is potentially a great little knife. I replaced both washers with equal size brass washers that I got at Canadian Tire, and reground the edge on a standard Lansky Sharpener. Since then, it opens and closes like the washers were made of butter, it cuts like a razor and the side-to-side play is gone completely.
So with a little tricking out, I think it's what Ed Fowler calls 'a knife with soul.' It handles like it wants you to handle it; easy to open, close, use, play with. Great little blade.

But I have to agree; CRKT in general does not produce a lot of spectacular knives. They've had a few genuine innovations - LAWKS comes to mind - but a lot of aint-it-cool useless novelties as well. This leads me to suspect that they're just aimlessly throwing their ideas out into the market, to see which ones will stick.
Also, they do use fairly sub-par steel these days. AUS-8 was a big deal ten years ago. These days the top manufacturers are using VG-10, 154CM/ATS34, S30V, and other high-end martensic alloys.

 

[Confederate]

I don't mind AUS8 at all if it's well polished and treated. Which M16 do you have, BTW?

I've heard a lot of good things about the Lansky. I reckon being able to lock the knife blade enables one to reprofile it easier. Also, on the washers, I've heard a lot of people criticize teflon washers. Is it that they wear quickly that folks don't like them? I imagine replacing them with brass washers isn't difficult.

Do you have any photos of your EDC that you could post? I'd like to see it.

 

[missin_hobo]

The Lansky makes it very easy to put a factory-quality, like-new, hair-popping edge on a knife. But it has a few drawbacks.
The guide hole in the clamp is quite small, which affects the angle you sharpen at. Often sharpening a knife on a lansky for the first time requires either A) a lot of fiddling to get the blade in the clamp just right, where the 'sweet spot' is, or B) a lot of filing and grinding to achieve an edge profile that works on the Lansky. Usually B means a bit of stock removal and (almost invariably in my experience) a thinner edge at the tip of the knife, where the hone is at a more extreme angle. I'll post some pictures of my M16 tomorrow, and you'll see what I mean.
The Lansky is best suited to knives with single edge bevels and simple, subtle blade geometry. Drop and clip points, for instance. A curvy Ken-Onion-style knife (like my Spec Bump) or a tanto point, with essentially two sepperate edges, would be much harder, if not downright nightmarish, to sharpen on a Lansky. The same goes for larger blades, anything over 4". Assuming they don't get wrenched out of the clamp by their own sheer weight, you're almost sure to have to reposition the clamp before you've finished sharpening the blade, and this makes it hard to keep the edge angle consistent.
It also means really wrenching the clamp shut tight, which over time will strip the screw threads and make the clamp useless. (This seems to be inevitable, regardless of blade size; I'm on my third clamp in two years because I keep stripping the threads. No other way to get the thing tight enough.)

So it's hardly a flawless system, but if and when you can make it work, the results are hard to argue with. Just be wary that it takes a bit of time and thought on your part to get the most out of it.

It's late where I am, so I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow. (Frankly, I don't mind AUS8 either, but this M16 is the last AUS8 knife I own. It has too many other knice qualities for me to just stop using it, but my preference is swinging quickly into higher-end steels.)

 

[audiopile]

First off - CRKT a number of years ago didn't impress me - pretty wigly. I have bought a bunch of their knives recentlty - for several reasons: 1.) I actually like their AUS-8 - it holds a edge well enough for me - when I do dull it ( things like carving holes in drywall tend to do this) - it's NBD to resharpen.Doesn't seem to chip - even when used pretty brutally in gouging cuts. 2.) I have really enjoyed looking over some very interesting lock designs from creative designers who make custom knives I can't afford or at least can't afford the therapy required after using one for a work knife. 3.) Fit and finish are really good on their products today. Do they achieve a CRK level of fit and finish? - ahh - no - not even particularly close.
Are they junk - no- they are reasonably well put together afordable and useable tools. This is nothing to be ashamed of. I would agree that they've got a few knives that fall into the "flash and foible" catagory - but most knife co.'s offer at least one or two designs that leave you scratching your head - CRKT's there too.
I enjoy and regularly use several of their products - have never had to return one for service - so can't speak to that one way or the other.

 

[Confederate]

I don't think CRKT is junk and no one would like to see them succeed in this business than me. I just can't work around their chisel grind knife configuration and, having used them and V-grind knives, there just isn't any comparison in cutting ability. AUS8 knives are so easy to sharpen that sharpening isn't an issue, so we don't need chisel grind knives because they're easier to sharpen. They also don't cut nearly as well. Perhaps as a weapon there's no advantage either type of knife has, but for slashing, I believe the double grind offers more latitude. Edge holding, or retention? It's true that CG knives may keep an edge better, but since my other AUS8 knives keep their double edges just fine, I've concluded that the only benefit a CG offers is to the knife manufacturer.

There are very few knives that are, to me, as handsome as the M21-04. I'd love to see it offered black on black. Not having serrations, the M21-04 has a decent double grind blade that, in conjunction with the LAWKS, makes it a strong, very desirable knife. In fact, I don't believe I've ever read a negative posting about that knife. I've also never had any problems with the teflon washers, which seem to be criticized much more than the knife grinds. Still, washers are cheap and easily replaced. Still, it's just another cost cutting step that annoys me about the company.

Cold Steel takes a lot of abuse and there are quite a few gripes I have with their San Mai blades and testing methodology. Still, I have yet to buy a loose, poorly made CS knife. Some of them may have been too tight, like an old El Hombre, but I even like that. (Has a picture of a cowboy one it.)

CRKT stands at the brink right now and can teeter in any direction, and so far it doesn't look promising. I hope they listen to gripes about teflon washers, chisel grinds and crappy steels (like AUS 4), but if they don't, they'll go the way of Gerber, and I'd hate to see that happen.

BTW, CRKT seems to be having problems with counterfeits, too, and some of them look fairly convincing. I would urge those who have loose, bad knives with crummy edge retention to check to see if perhaps they got a bad one. Click here for further details.

The CRKT M21-04 is a splendid folder. I've yet to see any negative
reviews on it.

 

[pedicabdriver]

why are they trying to pass off a counterfeit cold steel ti-lite as a crkt?

 

[enderwiggin]

why are they trying to pass off a counterfeit cold steel ti-lite as a crkt?

Why would you assume Cold Steel is trying to pass of a generic Stiletto-style knife as an original design?

On their own website, they state: "Our Ti-Lite® tactical folders evoke the sleek speed and rebellious lines of the classic 1950’s-styled switchblade"

That style of knife has been around since WWII, why would you assume that Cold Steel, of all manufacturers, came up with an original design that CRKT felt the need to copy?


Back to the topic of the thread, I haven't yet seen a CRKT knife that really strikes me as something I would use. My impression is that they're the higher lower-end manufactures.

Which isn't to say that they don't put out nice knives, I just think it's something to keep in mind when reviewing them!

 

[ivan51]

I have a CRKT Lightfoot M1. i really like the way the handle feels but the blade get real dull quick cutting soft material. im deff. not that impressed with this folder

 

[Let It Bleed]

Questions:

Were all the M-16 series knife blades made from AUS-8 steel except for the Zytel models? Is this still true today?

When did they switch from AUS-6 to AUS-4 in the Zytel M-16 series? Is there anyway to determine whether a blade is AUS-6 or AUS-4?

What is the purported advantage of a chisel grind?

Thanks

 

[annr]

First, their wretched chisel grind blades with bevels on the left side, which make them a bear for right-handers like me. Not long ago I went out and got some wood that blown down after a storm, then set out whittling just to see how well some of my knives cut. All of my V-grind knives cut like champs.

I've used chisel grinds for many years but only for scraping, not cutting. I am RHed and the bevel is ALWAYS on the left side of the blade to scrape. These blades do work at steeper angles: between approx. 30deg behind and 30deg in front of perpendicular to the wood--w/ wrist rotation in my case. I also plane with the blade held at 90deg to the wood. These angles, which we call the rake angles, are somewhat affected by the cutting angle of the edge bevel. My knives range in angles from 22-35deg and the knife works differently in each case.
All that being said, I don't like chisel grinds except when I am removing bark or doing other heavy duty work. Double-beveled knifes work better in almost every other case I can think of and are much easier/quicker to sharpen.

I don't know exactly how the CRKT knives are supposed to perform and I haven't used one, but to me it sounds like your experience is exactly the same as mine.

Hope this helps.

 

[annr]

Questions:



What is the purported advantage of a chisel grind?

As I understand it: 1. more heft behind the edge bevel so more power/strength (if that is the correct way to phrase)

2. Ease of sharpening because it is easier to keep constant angles by merely keeping the knife flat on the stone.

IME I think that it is possible to put enough qualifiers on these 2 things that the advantages aren't as good as they sound on paper.

 

[Confederate]

Well, are there many of you who would buy CRKT knives if they did double grind their blades? I recall the first time I bought and carried a Cold Steel Gunsite knife. Even though it had serrations, I noticed Cold Steel had put a double grind on the plain edged part of the blade. I wondered if that was because they wanted it that way or whether Gunsite wanted it that way? Regardless, I still love the Gunsite. As I said, I've written CRKT about the matter — so far, no reply.