Am I Being Too Hard on CRKT Knives?

[Bushman5]

Over the past six months, I've become really down on CRKT knives. Actually it's the blades I don't like, not the rest of the knives.

In fact, I wrote the company yesterday, not that I think they'll listen, but I had to find an outlet for my frustration.

First, their wretched chisel grind blades with bevels on the left side, which make them a bear for right-handers like me. Not long ago I went out and got some wood that blown down after a storm, then set out whittling just to see how well some of my knives cut. All of my V-grind knives cut like champs. No problems—nice, precise cuts. Even my "control" knife, a cheap Maxam, cut fairly well. My CRKT Desert Cruiser, however, was abominable. The wood kept sliding all over the bevel and I had to use sharper angles to get any bite. Fine for cutting out large chunks, but lousy for just stripping off bark. In fact, it was quite frustrating.

My other knives, Cold Steel Voyagers in 4- and 5-inch blades did a fine job of cutting everything, but then, they always have been fine cutters. They also sharpen practically by staring at them! My little Spyderco Native also did a great job. In fact, it's point made wood work quite easy in that it could easily dig out pits and knots in the wood. The Desert Cruiser, however, only did well when I shifted it to my left hand. I'm not a southpaw, but the knife did a fine job when I used it as a left-handed knife. When using it right-handed, the beveled portion of the blade would slide along the wood without ever biting into it, except using sharper angles.

Another thing I don't like about CRKT is that for all their chisel grind knives, you'd think CRKT's Slidesharp knife sharpener would work on their own knives, but nay, the little plastic guides are all designed for double-grind blades! Sharpening the CRKTs is easy enough, but one is better off just using a medium ceramic stone. The odd thing is, CRKT reps have told customers to sharpen their chisel grind knives as they would a double, or v-grind. I actually tried this to see what would happen and the knife's angles shifted so much that the blade became almost unusable.

I also had an old Winchester 1335 folder, which was about the second or third locking folder I ever owned. It has a heavy handle and a cheap "surgical stainless" blade with a chisel grind, but the grind was on the right side of the blade. When I used that knife to cut the same wood bark off the branches, it cut much easier and much more efficiently than my Desert Cruiser. To me it's obvious, having a chisel grind on the right side of the blade is better for right handers and having it on the left is better for southpaws.

My only other gripe with the knife is that the AUS8 steel used in CRKT's knives tend to be softer than that used by Cold Steel and others. I have an M21-04 CRKT that is one of my favorite knives. I also have three or four of their titanium knives, which are gorgeous, but have CG blades and bumpy serrations.

Has anyone else had similar issues with their CRKTs?

CRKT Desert Cruisers, gold and silver. Note the serrations
and the chisel grind blades. Imagine stripping bark from a
branch using your right hand to cut with.

This is the old Winchester 1335. The bevel is on
the right side of this knife, which was designed
for right-handers.

The CRKT M21-04 is a great knife.

thats because they, like most knifemakers, make the grinds ON THE WRONG SIDE for safe cutting (which is AWAY from the user). Its a big pet peeve of mine.

 

[holeymoley]

I really don't understand the intensity of the dissatisfaction with CRKT or even AUS-8. But, in the interest of full disclosure, I'd like to state that I don't have a AUS-8 Cold Steel to compare it with.

I own a few CRKTs and the edge-retention on mine is satisfactory. I have used a Tiny Tighe and M16 extensively and a Van Hoy Snap-fire less so. They hold an edge reasonably well and I have no chips on any of these blades, in fact, I like them so much I'm looking for an M21 right now.

Without having read a great deal about their products, I have the impression that CRKT is a manufacturer that puts out reasonably priced production pieces with collaborations from some popular designers- whose knives you otherwise might not have been able to purchase. If that is their strategy, I'd say they are doing it well.
Let me just finish with this:

My brother (not a knife guy) came by for a visit recently and for his graduation, I told him he could pick out a folder from my collection. I was interested on seeing what a non-aficionado might look for in a folder. So, I put out about a dozen folders, including some higher end stuff, on my desk for him to see. I watched as he handled and put back some of my favorites, including a BM griptilian, Mini-Ruckus, a ZDP189 Endura, etc. He finally settled on a M16-Zytel. He said he liked the way it flips and the Auto-Lawks.
This definitely wouldn't have been my choice, but...damn, it was unexpected.

 

[Confederate]

That's because they, like most knifemakers, make the grinds ON THE WRONG SIDE for safe cutting (which is AWAY from the user). Its a big pet peeve of mine.

I'm not sure I understand. When I whittle wood, for example, I cut away from myself. That puts the bevel directly over the cutting material and acts as a barrier to certain angles. To get a good "bite" into the wood, the bevel should be on the right side for a right-handed person. To get that bite, I have to cut towards myself; however, I won't do that.

I really don't understand the intensity of the dissatisfaction with CRKT or even AUS-8. But, in the interest of full disclosure, I'd like to state that I don't have a AUS-8 Cold Steel to compare it with.

In that case, I'd recommend you pick up a decent double-grind knife. I think you'll see what I mean almost immediately the next time you need to cut something. If you go with the M21, I'd urge you to go with the -04 rather than the -14; that's the plain edged version. I very much recommend the Cold Steel Voyagers, Vaqueros and Recon 1s. I like their serration pattern, though if you try to cut metal or tough wood in a rough manner, you can chip the needles. Still, the serration pattern on a Cold Steel can cleanly cut a piece of paper, which the CRKT serrations could never do. Spyderco also makes good serrations. I've been doing some experimenting with cutting various materials with different serration patterns and the CRKT serrations have the worst attributes of a knife and a saw.

AUS8 is a DGS in my opinion...eh...meaning "durn good steel." It ain't the best steel out there, but for a folding knife I really like it because it sharpens easily, keeps an edge respectably and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

My brother (not a knife guy) came by for a visit recently and for his graduation, I told him he could pick out a folder from my collection. I was interested in seeing what a non-aficionado might look for in a folder. So, I put out about a dozen folders, including some higher end stuff, on my desk for him to see. I watched as he handled and put back some of my favorites, including a BM Griptilian, Mini-Ruckus, a ZDP189 Endura, etc. He finally settled on a M16-Zytel. He said he liked the way it flips and the Auto-Lawks. This definitely wouldn't have been my choice, but...damn, it was unexpected.

To a non-knife aficionado, all steel is roughly the same. Without anything else to judge by, the only thing left is the frame and locking mechanism. A lot of people know that FRN is a cheap material for knife handles, but in the case of a Spyderco Native, the blade is far better than the handles. At the same time, the knife feels great in the hand. Still, it probably wouldn't be someone's first choice if they didn't know knives.

Did you give him the CRKT after he picked it? And was it an old one or a newer one (w/AUS4)? I'll bet he'd love the titanium model....

The M16-14T and M16-13T

 

[holeymoley]

Yep, I gave it to him, it was the AUS-4 combo edge (-13Z I think). I haven't handled the Ti one, but I think I would like it too. I asked him about why he didn't like the BM Griptilian and he didn't like the Axis lock.

Also, I might take your advice on the M21-04 rather than the -14. That's a good point on the serrations (no pun intended), the CRKT serrations don't compare to the Spyderco or even BM serrations. I guess you like the size of the -04 better than the -02?

 

[flashlife]

I like CRKT's designs. Too many times, however, their choice of steels sucks !
I got an M16-01Z (AUS-4) and loved the design; but the edge would go dull in my pocket!
Never mind cutting anything with it.
Turns out that the open back design of the M16 allows coins, keys, etc to bump against the blade edge,
and anything that touches an AUS-4 edge will dull it.

Soooooo, I figured their Neck P.E.C.K. neck knife in AUS-6 would be better/OK.
WRONG !! The sheath is glass-filled zytel and dulls the edge EVERYTIME you sheath or unsheath the blade!

Of course, these two (AUS-4 & -6) are easy to sharpen, but who wants to resharpen after EVERY use ?!

The CRKT Krein Dogfish (3Cr13 steel) is better but not up to the edge holding power of a Byrd, Spyderco, etc.
I haven't managed to get a CRKT in AUS-8 or better, but I'd hope they're similar to AGRussell's, Kabar/Dozier, etc.

Anyway, nothing in CRKT less than AUS-8 for me.

JMH

 

[Confederate]

Also, I might take your advice on the M21-04 rather than the -14. That's a good point on the serrations (no pun intended), the CRKT serrations don't compare to the Spyderco or even BM serrations. I guess you like the size of the -04 better than the -02?

Oh, absolutely. The -04 is beautiful and it's strong. The smaller version is correspondingly strong, but a small gentleman's knife need not be that beefy. There was a review here some time ago with lots of photos. But still, it's a matter of taste.

If you have any luck cutting anything with the CRKT serrations, please let me know. As I said, I've been experimenting using this Desert Cruiser, and the cutting ability on both the CG blade and the serrations have bordered on merely "acceptable."

This is one of the worst serration patterns I've seen.

 

[hardheart]

Why would you assume Cold Steel is trying to pass of a generic Stiletto-style knife as an original design?

On their own website, they state: "Our Ti-Lite® tactical folders evoke the sleek speed and rebellious lines of the classic 1950’s-styled switchblade"

That style of knife has been around since WWII, why would you assume that Cold Steel, of all manufacturers, came up with an original design that CRKT felt the need to copy?

Phil Boguszewski designed the Ti-Lite. But I caqn't figure out what pedicabdriver was talking about, the closest things I can think of were designed by Kit Carson and Pat Crawford. These aren't generic corporate designs ripping off other generic corporate designs, some old names in the custom world are attached to them.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Enderwiggin:

That style of knife has been around since WWII, why would you assume that Cold Steel, of all manufacturers, came up with an original design that CRKT felt the need to copy?

I think it's CRKT that's being counterfeited. Around my areas here, lots of knives are sold with CRKT brand which is not CRKT (never been in their line of offering, I've followed since 2001).

Confederate, I fully agree that serrations are not meant to be ground at left side for right handed people (majority). However, that's what make the knife look good on photo, and I know not only CRKT does this, many others too. However, many others do the plain edge with dual grind, not chisel. I don't know whey for the Desert Cruiser they did all the way chisel (including the PE).

Manufacturer that thinks function (like Victorinox) will put the serration on right side (see OHT).

 

[Confederate]

If I wanted to reprofile the knife to a double grind, how would I go about doing it? I'm ticked not only because I'm stuck with these horrid designs, but that CRKT didn't even respond to my query. They put out their knife sharpener, and the thing only has angle inserts for double-grind knives. In short, their sharpener won't even sharpen their own knives. True, they're easy enough to sharpen, but the edge is horrible for cutting anything; paper, wood, cord, rope—it's just terrible. The only thing it's good for is as a weapon, and a v-grind will give a user much more of a slashing ability.

I agree about the plain edge knives, but CRKT is putting those horrible serrations on almost all of their blades. You'd think reviews of the knife would reflect their poor designs, but I think most people use them for opening potato chips and UPS packages containing other knives! Emerson also puts the grind on the left side and though I've never owned an Emerson, I'd never buy one just for that reason.

The chisel grind makes for good photos, but they're lousy for cutting.

 

[lvbuckeye27]

i have an M16-01KZ, and i do no use it. in fact, i wouldn't even give it away.

the design is great, but the application is sorely lacking. the screws in the clip unscrewed themselves, and then wouldn't go back in tightly. they just wobbled around. i ended up taking the clip off. the liner lock snaps all the way over to the opposite side of the blade, and gets jammed. the zytel scales and liners are so thin that they flex like crazy. now, i got it because both my brothers swore by the M16. the difference is they have the full sized made in the U.S. versions with aluminum scales. those knives are solid as a rock. no issues whatsoever...

so, my conclusion is that although there are quality knives being made overseas for the likes of Spyderco and Benchmade, the same can NOT be said about CRKT. if you are thinking about getting a CRKT, spend the extra scratch and get one made in the U.S. there's literally a world of difference.

 

[akadave2]

I do like CRKT designs but wish they would use better steel. Im not an AUS fan. I have had 1 CRKT knives and they didnt hold an edge and the grind was off. Otherwise they have some really good designs.

 

[Tblock1]

I like the designs on CRKT's. I have the Sting and think it is a great little fixed blade. i also have had the m16 edc, and think it is a great knife. Light, flips easily, in fact easier than benchmades in my opinion. My only gripe would be the blade play and edge retention.

 

[Confederate]

CRKT is, I think, a company in transition. Like anyone else, they're out to make money, but their dedication to the trade is in doubt.

I'd like to pick up a few of their knives, but I won't buy any more of their chisel grind knives. CRKT and even some knife makers, like Emerson, that should know better, are continuing to make knives made for left-handers simply because they look nice in photos. This is a great deal for southpaws, however, and there's no other options for right-handers unless the knives are available in double grind.

In all fairness, though, these companies say these knives are mainly tactical -- weapons -- and they aren't going to be used for whittling or debarking branches. My view is that even a tactical knife can be called into service for such cutting jobs in emergencies, and I'd rather have an AUS8 blade that was double ground than try to learn how to cut with my left hand with a knife with much better steel.

In the end, knives like this are not show pieces, and even those that are should pull their own weight (engraved gold-clad, silver etched revolvers can still kill). So knife companies that tout CG blades are only being lazy and disingenuous in my book. It wasn't until I actually tried using one of these knives and CG-L would fail in actual emergencies. In short, there's every reason good knives should be rugged double grind.

 

[carrot]

Confederate, I know you are looking for permission to try something else besides CRKT. CRKT makes a few nice knives but they really don't compare to the likes of Benchmade or Spyderco. I hereby give you my permission to buy yourself a Spyderco Endura or Delica or Caly3, of your choosing. You will love it! They cut great, no if's or but's.

 

[Phil Elmore]

I am a big fan of CRKT knives. I think the company offers a widely diverse line of affordable, functional "tactical" folders and utility blades that possess a lot of features I really like. I do not mind chisel grinds on most knives, and I do not find them lacking for my purposes. I've also found the people at CRKT to be very pleasant to deal with. The company ranks among my several favorite manufacturers.

 

[Lycosa]

C---You've always been tuff on CRK&T!!

 

[moonwilson]

I have several CRKT knives, they are all interesting in their own way. CRKT has some very interesting designs, and they seem to have good-quality manufacturing capability. Their fit and finish is generally good. Where they really fall apart is in the materials they use. I'm sure this is conscious on their part, so they can keep prices down and compete in their chosen market segment. If they made the same product line with higher-grade materials, they would be in direct competition with Spyderco, Benchmade and Kershaw. That's a lot of competition.

CRKT chooses to use less expensive materials so that they can produce knives at a lower price point. This helps them get their knives into a lot of brick & mortar places that don't carry more expensive knives. Your "average Joe" consumer who picks up a knife at the mall doesn't know what VG10, ZDP189 or S30V is, and sure isn't willing to pay a premium for it. I'm thinking CRKT does pretty well in retail with general consumers.
There are a lot more general consumers out there than there are knife collectors. People who are interested in knives and take the time to learn about them probably buy online, and care about quality materials.

CRKT isn't trying to make high-performance cutting instruments IMO. This isn't a bad thing, they satisfy a need in the marketplace.

 

[Confederate]

I've used a number of Cold Steel knives that have serrations, and many of them are ground on one side. But you can't debark branches with serrated knives and CS has the good sense to double grind their knives when part of the blade is plain. That's why I've always love their Gunsite knives.

I don't buy a whole lot of CRKTs anymore, but I do like the company and, as I've said, their double grind knives are fine, especially the M21-04. If I become careless with a CRKT chisel grind, at least I don't have to worry about cutting myself. The blades come dull and stay dull, but they cut what they're supposed to cut and they're not supposed to be razor sharp. They'll cut open boxes, slash vegetation, do light wood cutting jobs and act as weapons. If I want to debark wood, I rely on something with a keener edge.

I've said this before, too, that most modern knives, even when dull, still do a hell of a lot of cutting. If you're gutting an animal or debarking wood and making things out of wood, you'll need a good keen edge. It's not that I don't like CRKT; it's that I don't like chisel grind, especially when the bevel is on the wrong side for cutting wood. I imagine that a better grade steel and a good sharpening can produce a fine edge; I just prefer not having that kind of a grind.

BTW, I do like Spyderco and Benchmade knives just fine.

 

[neeman]

...

...
The chisel grind makes for good photos, but they're lousy for cutting.

When you cut with a wood chisel you use the 'flat' side up.
A wood plane is designed to hold the blade flat side up.
Only sometimes do you cut with a chisel flat side down.
When you sharpen a chisel or a plane blade you also hone the back to flat.
This gives a very low angle and sharp edge

If you are right handed, when you cut with the chisel grind, the blade has the flat side up.
If your final hone on the angle is not accurate, it does not matter as you are flattening the back to recieve the final very thin angled edge.
This makes for easy sharpening

You don't like it, but there is nothing wrong in the design.

 

[hardheart]

a plane produces a very thin offcut, chisel grinds are very poor for instances where there is no small offcut and the uneven force against the blade causes the cut to drift to one side.

the edge also isn't any thinner than a double ground edge if the included angles are the same. Emerson actually says his chisel ground knives are stronger because there is more metal in the cross section.