Am I being too tough on CS

[Jason B.]

I sent a few things to spyderco warranty and repair and what I got back was not what I expected. I sent in a older native that had some blade play in all directions and needed a sharpening and what I got back was the knife in the same condition but with the tip re-sharpened. I also sent in a G-10 endura that had a aray of problems, tip sticking out of handle when closed, vertical blade play, G-10 did not line up with the pocket clip holes, and there was a bubble in the blade. They replaced the endura but kept my polished clip and the G-10 is not a very good match on this one either. The last item I sent in was a UF benchstone that had mill marks in the surface that are visible even when the stone is clean and it also did not have a flat surface, on one side you could feel where there was a bump. I am still waiting on the benchstone but I have been told that the mill marks were normal and the surface was flat to their spec.

I am not very happy with the returned product or what I have been told about the benchstone, I hate to be a perfectionist but IMO these items are not up to par. Does anyone else have mill marks in their benchstone?

 

[rmc85]

I think if you spend a good amount of cash on a knife that the company should back their products.

Have you had experience with any other makers and getting repairs? I'm asking because I was just wondering if you have anything to compare this to.

My dealings with Spyderco CS is very limited so I don’t know what “on par” would be for dealing with them.

 

[Josh K]

My dealings with them have always been wonderful. :thumbup:

 

[J85909266]

I am not very happy with the returned product or what I have been told about the benchstone, I hate to be a perfectionist but IMO these items are not up to par.

I had similar issues. I had a Para with blade play and an off-center blade. It drove me nuts, so I contacted them and sent it in, and they sent me the knife back in the exact same condition. I had similar issues with every major production company out there. You are just a perfectionist, like I am.

My suggestion is to buy a Sebenza, Mnandi or Umnuumzaan. I still buy Spydercos for their amazing designs and functionality, but I expect my blades to be slightly off-center, and for there to be some uneven grinds and a little blade play. When I need that beautiful perfection in my pocket, which is at least 80% of the time, I reach for my Sebenza. It never gets loose on me, develops any play, goes off-center or lets me down, period. Hell, it's even perfect on the insides. Of course, you have to pay for knife perfection.

 

[dcycleman]

Yeah, me too. When I spend like a hundred bucks on a pocket knife I kind of think I am getting perfection or close to it. I just got a benchmade apparition back that I sent in because the blade was coming into contact with the spring between the liners and seriosly creating a dull spot. they sent it back razor sharp but time will tell if they actually adresses the blade hiting the spring. I used to be worse, now I try to accept that things are not always perfect. If they function properly then I'm generally happy. I think spyderco did a good job by replacing your endura although I would be annoyed too at the native. By the way, does anyone else really dislike natives, I have oneand I cant stand it, I think Im gonna give it away. chunky handle, fat unuseful blade, super hard deployment. I would rather a used delica over a native. my two cents

 

[MJF]

I'll take your native if you want to give it away

 

[Jason B.]

The native will be going back in a box to sit for the rest of its days or until I find out how to tighten the pin. Th endura is about as good as its going to get I guess, although I was under the impression that it was a premium endura. The one that is still bothering me is the benchstone, I cannot accept the answer of that's just how it is. I think that the benchstone should be the one item that is perfect, being able to see mill marks tells me that the surface is not as perfect as it needs to be, I CAN FEEL THEM WHEN SHARPENING!

I was also treated like a knife noob on the phone, like I didn't know what I was talking about. Still waiting for my call back too.

 

[serratededge]

I feel your pain. I had a similar experience but won`t bring up the details. You buy a knife from one of the biggest companies in the business and expect to get what you pay for. When that does not happen, you feel screwed. Then its worse when you give them the chance to rectify the problem and they don`t meet your expectations.

I still buy a Spyderco every now and again, but not like I was. Just to much money to chance getting a knife with a problem that won`t be fixed.

When I do buy one, I accept the fact that it may arrive problematic and be stuck with it. My latest, a Military with a slightly off center blade. They have made clear that it does not affect function and others have sent them in to be fixed or replaced and it is returned in the same condition so I did not even bother sending it in. There was a quick fix on the Spyderco forums that worked good enough. Satisfied, yes....... happy with my 1st Military, no. For that price and what you paid for your Endura, these problems should not happen.

Some folks are more anal about the little details, myself included. Some companies will oblige them and fix/replace your knife, some will not.

 

[yablanowitz]

I sent a few things to spyderco warranty and repair and what I got back was not what I expected. I sent in a older native that had some blade play in all directions and needed a sharpening and what I got back was the knife in the same condition but with the tip re-sharpened.

Details, please. You say it was older, but not how old. Was it a BRK Native, a 440V Native, an S30V Native, a Native II, or a Native III? PE, SE or CE? How much play are we talking about? If you clamp the handle in a vise, place a runout micrometer at the tip and move the blade from side to side, how far does it move? 0.005", 0.050", 0.500"? How much vertical play? I mean, we're not talking about a $500 semi-custom knife anyway, but it would help to know just what you are upset over.

I also sent in a G-10 endura that had a aray of problems, tip sticking out of handle when closed, vertical blade play, G-10 did not line up with the pocket clip holes, and there was a bubble in the blade. They replaced the endura but kept my polished clip and the G-10 is not a very good match on this one either.

Gee, they replaced the whole knife for free, including the clip. How thoughtless of them. Too bad they replaced it with another production knife instead of the hand-fitted custom you were obviously expecting.

The last item I sent in was a UF benchstone that had mill marks in the surface that are visible even when the stone is clean and it also did not have a flat surface, on one side you could feel where there was a bump. I am still waiting on the benchstone but I have been told that the mill marks were normal and the surface was flat to their spec.

I am not very happy with the returned product or what I have been told about the benchstone, I hate to be a perfectionist but IMO these items are not up to par. Does anyone else have mill marks in their benchstone?

I have no experience with their benchstones, and since you have not provided so much as a picture of the problem, I'm in no position to judge either way. I do have to wonder about why you are telling the world about a defective product before you have even seen what they are sending back to you.

 

[Jason B.]

Yab, The native is a 440V version it has about 1/4in of side to side play and 1/8 vertical play.

I was not expecting a custom endura just one that the G-10 lined up to the pocket clip screw holes. Now I must be very carefull to not strip the screws when changing clip position.

I am saying these things about the benchstone because all they were going to do is send it back. The mill marks are similar to what you would see if you cut a peice of wood with a circular saw. I was told that there was nothing that could be done and the mill marks were normal. sorry no pic's I didn't think I would need them.

 

[Roger999]

I don't think anyone would recommend this, but you can tighten a pivot by laying one side of the pin on something hard like steel, and lightly tap the other pin with a ball peen hammer till it's tight , untightening will be a problem though lol.

 

[sodak]

Does anyone else have mill marks in their benchstone?

Yes. I put it on a DMT stone (I've got the *big* ones) and smoothed it out that way. It was fine for my knives, but my straight razors "chattered" a little on it. Now it's good.

 

[Jason B.]

Yes. I put it on a DMT stone (I've got the *big* ones) and smoothed it out that way. It was fine for my knives, but my straight razors "chattered" a little on it. Now it's good.

What stone worked best?

 

[sodak]

I have used either the blue or red stones, both seem to work fine. IIRC, I started it on blue then finished it on red to try and get the smallest gouges possible. You could probably lap 2 spyderco stones together as well, if you have them. My DMT's are the biggest they make, I think 10x4 or something like that.

I love DMT's for lapping, I've used them successfully on Belgian coticules and Norton waterstones as well.

 

[yablanowitz]

For what it's worth, every G-10 Endura I've seen has oversize holes in the G-10 so you don't accidentally get the screws trying to hold in the G-10. They simply pass through it and thread into the holes in the steel liner. You should always be very careful when dealing with screws that size, as they are prone to stripping easily. I'd suggest using Loctite instead of excess torque as well.

On the Native, if you slide a safety razor blade between the blade and handle then peen the pivot as suggested above you can probably remove the lateral play. Carefully peening the lockbar pivot pin may help with the vertical play, and it may not. Be aware that peening pins is an art, and if done wrong can swell the pin shaft and lock up everything.

I've had pretty good luck lapping ceramic hones using diamond hones as well. I'm not sure what effect it has on the finish grit of the ceramic, though.

 

[Joshua J.]

I hate to say it, but if you've seen two G-10 Enduras with off center scales, chances are most of them are that way. It happens. It's very unfortunate, but there usually isn't much that can be done about it (when the whole run is made with a specific problem).

As for blade play on the FRN handle. That's pretty much the nature of the beast, and why I almost refuse to buy knives with non adjustable pivot pins (primary exception being the Tazman Salt).

I have all three benchstones, and love them. My UF stone has a clear pattern on it, and it does not affect performance. It still makes things much sharper than the fine stone.

 

[Jason B.]

Well, maybe I am being a little tough on them. I guess you just need to accept things for the way they are sometimes

 

[SIFU1A]

as far as the knives what yablonowitz said covers it imho, they replaced one and ya would just have to know the age and model of the other to accurately assess how they did, if the stone has a groove you can feel with your finger thats not right imho i know none of my spyderco stones have any grooves in 'em, none ya can see/none ya can feel, so imho thats a problem, i dont see how it would work very well not being at least fairly flat/no grooves that doesnt make sense to me..

i have dealt with spyderco CS a few times and it was always a pleasure FWIW.

i also dont think ya need to get a seb to get a knife with a centered blade(within reason), one that the tip doesnt stick out of, one that the G10 lines up correctly, one without major bladeplay (most folders have some but you know what i mean), one with no "bubbles" on the blade, or one that the blade doesnt hit the liner, i have had more than a few spydies which fill the above criteria and if i did get one which had any issues like above its going back to be fixed, but i cant say i have as yet, the last new spydie i purchased was 2 yrs ago ( 3 Ti ATR's) and they were all immaculate, so unless spydie QC has really gone down hill the last 2 yrs (which would be news to me) you are well within reason to expect a decent finished knife with no issues like listed above, it would suprise me if sal said "oh thats normal, expect things like that".

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Knifenut,

I don't think the problem is our customer service. I think that perhaps your expectations mught be too high. Perfection is not possible in the knife industry and you could end up quite frustrated to seek it. I have been a knife nut for 60 years and have yet to find the "perfect" knife. I have some that are close, and I paid dearly for them, but perhaps my eye is too keen?

A very old Native that sounds like it's been badly abused would not be practical to "re-build". A custom knifemaker would have to spend quite a bit of time (at $50 / hr shop time). We couldn't replace an old abused knife without charging you for a new one. Sometimes knives just need to be retired. 440V was before S60V and we've been using S30V for a long time.

Regarding the bench stones; All flat stones that are flat have been ground flat with the same equipment. They all leave the same marks. They are not visible with other stones because the other stones are not fine enough to show with and they are friable, which means they begin to wear with the first stroke, which removes the grind lines. Our ultra is so fine and so hard, that these grind lines are visible albeit not really measurable.

sal

 

[Guyon]

I sent a few things to spyderco warranty and repair and what I got back was not what I expected. I sent in a older native that had some blade play in all directions

Any side-to-side blade play can be easily fixed, I think. I've done so with a Native in the past at least, and it was a 440V version IIRC.

Just put it on a block of wood, use a brass punch and light hammer, and tap on the pivot pin. Start light and progressively tap harder, testing the blade play after each tap. If you hit too hard, you'll wind up with a knife that won't open, but if you're careful, side-to-side blade play can be fixed. Up-down-blade play is a different story.