Am I ready to take the leap to Knifemaker - Pocketana, Kwaiken, Kaiken, Integral

K

kwakn

Joined
Oct 17, 2009
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117
Blade Steel: CPM3V, Peters heat treat, 60 HRC
Handle Material: Nylon Tsukamaki, stingray, waxed nylon cord & leather with 5L x 7B Turks Head (Not epoxied yet)
Weight: 6oz Blade Height: 15/16”
Overall Length: 9.625” Edge: Convex (not sharpened yet)
Blade Length: 4.5" Full Flat Grind, Convex Tip Blade Width: 1/4” at the Bolster w/ slight taper

This integral design is crafted from 1/4” stock. The handle is thinned and holes drilled for weight reduction leaving a decorative pommel and bolster. After heat treat, the blade is hand sanded to 600 grit and etched in Ferric Chloride.

The handle is shaped with leather, wound with heavy waxed nylon cord under stingray skin and nylon lace Tsukamaki. This fills the hand, eliminates pressure points and provides a balance point where the Turks Head meets Tsukamaki. Ura and Omote knots secure the wrap. Thumb grooves are eased to provide grip but not too sharp. The handle will be sealed with ESP155 high penetration marine epoxy.

The sheath is wet formed from 2 ply’s of Barge-bonded 5-7oz veg tanned leather providing a finished surface inside and out. The belt loop is woven between the layers, nylon waxed stitches are recessed and the sheath is conditioned with Lexol, Leather Balm/Atom Wax and finished with LeatherSeal beeswax. A removable/adjustable dangler rounds out the design.

WIP - (from the bottom) back from water jet, after HT, after 600 grit







Final product - still working on photo skills.





Ura knot

Omote knot









 
Individually, every elements and detail shown seem well executed. As a complete knife, it looks odd somehow. I think it is mainly that the blade does not match the handle.
 
Stacy, I am sincerely interested in your and others opinion. Can you elaborate?

Ed
 
I think I see the look he was going for. But like Stacy, it just doesn't quite look right. For me there are three problems. The way the spine dips quickly at the ricasso, the superfluous jimping, and the sharp angle at the front edge of the blade. It looks like he's trying to make a tanto style, but didn't quite make it convincing.
 
I'd say yes. Designs evolve over time. Looks like you put great care into getting that wrap done. Nice work.
 
I'll explain it this way:
I like a gal with nice size breasts just as much as I like gals with small pert breasts. I like short gals, as well as medium size gals. I like blonds, and I like brunettes.
However, a gal with one large an one small breast, blond hair and brunette eyebrows, and long legs and short arms would look strange to me. No matter how well shaped any of those features was, the combination would be off-putting.

On your knife, each design element seems well done quality wise. However, you tossed the entire design book into one knife.
The blade shape does not fit the tsuka. The biggest difference is in size/shape. The blade is thinner than the tsuka, and it is curved while the handle is straight. The ricasso is angular and curved at the same time. The spine curves down , then up, and has jimping that defies need, as the handle has a large Turk's head place to set your thumb. The tip seems oddly beveled.

........"The blade is thinner than the tsuka, and it is curved while the handle is straight".....Lets look at this one item in detail:
The tsuka maki ( The nylon is the ito, BTW. Tsuka-maki is the tying pattern.) is a pattern of geometrical repetitions composed entirely of angles. The kashira element is a pentagon. The front of the Turk's head is a straight line.........
The blade is all curves and radii. The plunge is swept, the choil is a continuous curve, the blade is up-swept, the kisaki is rounded, ....well, you see where I am going. There isn't one singe straight line or geometric shape in the blade....not one. Even the makers mark is curved.
 
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bladsmth said:
On your knife, each design element seems well done quality wise. However, you tossed the entire design book into one knife.
The blade shape does not fit the tsuka. The biggest difference is in size/shape. The blade is thinner than the tsuka, and it is curved while the handle is straight. The ricasso is angular and curved at the same time. The spine curves down , then up, and has jimping that defies need, as the handle has a large Turk's head place to set your thumb. The tip seems oddly beveled.

........"The blade is thinner than the tsuka, and it is curved while the handle is straight".....Lets look at this one item in detail:
The tsuka maki ( The nylon is the ito, BTW. Tsuka-maki is the tying pattern.) is a pattern of geometrical repetitions composed entirely of angles. The kashira element is a pentagon. The front of the Turk's head is a straight line.........
The blade is all curves and radii. The plunge is swept, the choil is a continuous curve, the blade is us-swept, the kisaki is rounded, ....well, you see where I am going. There isn't one singe straight line or geometric shape in the blade....not one. Even the makers mark is curved.
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So are you saying I'm a trend setter? :)

You have accurately described the knife. I believe the tip is too blunt and moved that grind back on the next two in que. Ultimately, my goal is to have a LUM tanto tip but I haven't figured that all out yet. As for no straight lines, it is by design. I've seen so many tanto/kwaikens and didn't like them because they were all straight lines and chiseled. I don't have the skill to make a 'proper' tanto so this was my impression of one that I could make.

I've read a lot of threads and their seems to be those in jimp camp and those not in the jimp camp. Since this is my 4th finished knife that I made for me, I wanted it for extra reach and since I bought that fancy file I obviously had to try it out.

I've had 3 turks heads on this and haven't epoxied it yet. I undershoot on size and then I guess I overshot on this one. I'll give it another go and keep tweaking.

I appreciate the design input. I will put pen to paper and make the changes you suggest and see how it looks. Thank you for commenting on the execution part. That was actually my biggest worry.

Shaw Blades - thanks for the encouragement.

Ed
 
Test, re test, and test your heat treat and edge. If it holds up and you list the thing and someone buys it congratulations. A lot of stuff is listed on the exchange is REALLY underpriced.

If you really want it to see how it goes and feel confident in the heat treat and edge, give it a try. What you don't want is a knife performing poorly and having to deal with that fallout on your first sold knife.
 
The knife is nice, but I'm not fond of wrapped handles. You did such a detailed job on the knife, despite the inherent design flaws, but the wrapped handle says "everyday" to me. I great design deserves a great handle.

You obviously worked really hard on this knife, and you are proud of it. I have a feeling that when you really nail it, you will be a force to be reckoned with. ;)
 
Shaw Blades said:
Test, re test, and test your heat treat and edge. If it holds up and you list the thing and someone buys it congratulations. A lot of stuff is listed on the exchange is REALLY underpriced.

If you really want it to see how it goes and feel confident in the heat treat and edge, give it a try. What you don't want is a knife performing poorly and having to deal with that fallout on your first sold knife.
Click to expand...

It's 3v and I'm no where near ready to take that on myself. This is part of a batch of 6 that I got back from Peters. My brother got knife #2 for Christmas (2012) and used it for a year in is greenhouse business. I asked him this past Christmas how often he sharpened it. His reply: yea it could probably use a touch up. Knife #1 (my personal abuser) has batoned seasoned oak for kindling on more than one occasion and required minimal stropping to bring it back. I'm very happy with Peters work.

My day job has conditioned me not to overhype a product or service. Yes, it will come back around.
 
jhiggins said:
The knife is nice, but I'm not fond of wrapped handles. You did such a detailed job on the knife, despite the inherent design flaws, but the wrapped handle says "everyday" to me. I great design deserves a great handle.

You obviously worked really hard on this knife, and you are proud of it. I have a feeling that when you really nail it, you will be a force to be reckoned with. ;)
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Thanks J.
 
If I may offer my opinion for whatever it's worth. I agree that the individual components are very nicely done. Some things I really like are the pommel, the blade in general, and the really cool integral habaki/ricasso/bolsters. I personally am not a fan of cord wrap unless it is really, really clean or traditional. Yours looks hand filling but fat. Not too wide, just bloated. I think the turks head knot is the main culprit leading to an overall awkwardness though. Plus it hides one of the coolest features, the (stock removal) integral bolsters. Were it me, I think I would try and show off those with scales of some sort. Or if I were trying not to alter the original look too much then I might opt for a hybrid traditional handle construction where thin wooden scales with a shallow hourglass profile and slightly flattened oval cross section, are fitted around the nakago and in this case up against the pseudo-habaki. Then wrapped in same followed by ito. The space between the habaki and the tsuka could be finished with a spacer to vaguely represent a tsuba and fuchi but with the tsuba flush with the rest of the handle. Please read this just as I see it and not as how I think you should do it.
Another option would be to use much smaller cordage for the turks head knot. Making it more subtle and lower profile would go a long ways in it looking less awkward in my opinion.
Finally, I really like the sheath. Maybe a little thickish but looks like a well crafted, buttery smooth piece of tooled leather. Kind of like a good piece of luggage. Thanks for letting us take a look and give an opinion.
 
Perrin said:
If I may offer my opinion for whatever it's worth. ...Or if I were trying not to alter the original look too much then I might opt for a hybrid traditional handle construction where thin wooden scales with a shallow hourglass profile and slightly flattened oval cross section, are fitted around the nakago and in this case up against the pseudo-habaki. The space between the habaki and the tsuka could be finished with a spacer to vaguely represent a tsuba and fuchi but with the tsuba flush with the rest of the handle. Another option would be to use much smaller cordage for the turks head knot. Making it more subtle and lower profile would go a long ways in it looking less awkward in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Perrin,
Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts. The handle is at it's maximum girth. It could be thinner. As I was reading (and flipping back and forth to google to figure out which parts were which), it all makes sense and the lines would flow better. It will be something to work on. I think for this knife, I need to make the turks head smaller and elongate the tip. It's heat treated already so that's not going to be much fun but I do think it's necessary at this point. I enjoy tsukamaki and making knots so while I don't want to, I will, to make a better product.

This is a great forum. Ya'lls input and help got me to this point. I sincerely appreciate the feedback and you answered my original inquiry. I am not ready yet but inching closer.
 
I think they are very nice looking, unique and executed beautifully. People are subjecting you to a lot of "rules" of knife making. One of the great things about knives is that they encompass art as well as function, art isn't subjected to rules. You don't have to ask these people if you're "ready to jump to knife maker", that's your decision, just like it was theirs when they reached that point. The information on Bladeforums is wonderful, the few members that are encouraging and considerate are as well. But I am really beginning to wonder if it is worth the masses of members who are just trolling for the opportunity to put down fledgling makers work in the guise of "constructional criticism". Use those beautiful knives to carve your path, let the naysayers wallow in their own negativity.
 
DanielDeesCreations said:
But I am really beginning to wonder if it is worth the masses of members who are just trolling for the opportunity to put down fledgling makers work in the guise of "constructional criticism". Use those beautiful knives to carve your path, let the naysayers wallow in their own negativity.
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It is inappropriate and inconsiderate to make unfounded accusations of others. I seriously doubt anyone responding to this (or any other thread) has anything but the best intentions in mind. I can assure you that is the case for me. If my commentary seems to focus on things that I think are less than wonderful, that's just because it is what stands out to me. If all you see is what is perfect and wonderful, then provide that feedback as well.

But you should avoid casting aspersions on people's motives when clearly you have no way of knowing them.
 
I made mention of the "encouraging and considerate" members as well, if one is quick to assume I was referring to them with the other comments, well that speaks volumes. Critique and kindness can be achieved simultaneously and I am certainly capable of distinguishing the difference. It is not just this single thread I am referring to. Frustration builds from seeing thread after thread filled with superfluous criticisms to down right insulting comments mixed with back handed compliments throughout this site. Certainly I'm not the only one who's noticed, I've seen plenty of mention and pleads from the kind folk for people to ease up with it. I stand behind my thoughts and words on the subject.
 
Daniel, if you have an issue with the way critiques are offered you should start a separate thread rather than derail this one.

'Nuff said.
 
It doesn't look like any tanto I've ever seen (yes, I've seen more than just the Americanized ones), but I think it could make a great skinner for deer, etc.
 
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