Am I the only one who prefers external stop pins?

[chiral.grolim]

Jeez, always something to obsess over. Why would someone put so much force on their knife that the stop pin would break? I'd suggest a fixed blade.

The stop-pin doesn't break, the TANG does.

Regarding the thumb-studs nd external pin working together (double stop-pin design), the Triad-lock does something similar though not with the thumb-studs. I guess that would be the next step TRIPLE blade-stop.

 

[78LilRed]

I'll never exert enough force on one of my folders to break the blade/tang on an internal stop pin design, if I do a fixed blade or different tool would have been better suited.

 

[o4tg]

Jeez, always something to obsess over. Why would someone put so much force on their knife that the stop pin would break? I'd suggest a fixed blade.

The stop pin doesn't brake, the significantly cut out tang does. On most knives the internal stop pin is much thinner as well. That doesn't necessarily mean it will break, but the thinner the stop pin, the faster it will wear out if all things are equal.

With the stop pin also being located so close to the pivot, it also means less of the tang itself is supported. This also means the closer to the pivot it is, the more stress will be imposed on that area. It's more leverage force located in a much smaller circumfrence. Picture the gears on a bicycle. The smaller the gear, the quicker the force you exert privides energy. Obviously the blade isn't going to bend rearwards, but physics dictates that the closer to the pivot the stop pin is, the more energy it will act as a damper for.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Just a week ago a guy posted in the spyderco section "southard fail" dudes blade snapped at the stop pin slot. Either way I don't care if it has one or not, if the design is something I like I buy it... pretty simple
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ade-failure-with-pics?highlight=southard+fail

Ok, first time for everything this being that time. Regardless I am not convinced that this is a design issue but rather one of a defect in the materials or heat treat.

The stop pin doesn't brake, the significantly cut out tang does. On most knives the internal stop pin is much thinner as well. That doesn't necessarily mean it will break, but the thinner the stop pin, the faster it will wear out if all things are equal.

With the stop pin also being located so close to the pivot, it also means less of the tang itself is supported. This also means the closer to the pivot it is, the more stress will be imposed on that area. It's more leverage force located in a much smaller circumfrence. Picture the gears on a bicycle. The smaller the gear, the quicker the force you exert privides energy. Obviously the blade isn't going to bend rearwards, but physics dictates that the closer to the pivot the stop pin is, the more energy it will act as a damper for.

Yet the question remains, just how strong does this area need to be? Again if a knife is being used as a knife then it really shouldnt matter. Stronger doesnt really mean better unless that extra strength is found to be necessary.

 

[o4tg]

Ok, first time for everything this being that time. Regardless I am not convinced that this is a design issue but rather one of a defect in the materials or heat treat.



Yet the question remains, just how strong does this area need to be? Again if a knife is being used as a knife then it really shouldnt matter. Stronger doesnt really mean better unless that extra strength is found to be necessary.

Knives are modular tools and poop happens. If you EDC, you're smart. If you EDC a tough onife built for almost anything, you're smarter.

Regardless, I fail to understand your argument that being tougher is a bad thing. I can understand if you own designs you prefer with internal stop pins, but your knife is weaker, even if it makes no difference to you. The things I've done with my 0350 no traditional internal stop pin would hold up to. I like that I can trust my knife to that extent.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Knives are modular tools and poop happens. If you EDC, you're smart. If you EDC a tough onife built for almost anything, you're smarter.

Regardless, I fail to understand your argument that being tougher is a bad thing. I can understand if you own designs you prefer with internal stop pins, but your knife is weaker, even if it makes no difference to you. The things I've done with my 0350 no traditional internal stop pin would hold up to. I like that I can trust my knife to that extent.

And if you edc a fixed blade of 1/2" sharpened s110v your the smartest? Not if you dont need it. Either way, I think I was pretty clear in what im saying. By your way of thinking if I took a pry bar and sharpened it and made a handle if folded into and used a hardened bolt as a pivot it would be stronger. But it doesnt end there for you. You seem to think that stronger is always superior. I am simply stating that I feel there is a point where stronger for the sake of being stronger isnt always optimal. You can ALWAYS make something stronger. There is no end all be all in strength. It can always be increased but at some point ergos, design limitations and weight will all suffer at some point. I simply feel that its not fair to label internal stop pin designs as inferior or weak when they do what they are intended to do. You have pretty much made it clear that you use your knives for things not intended for knives. So while you benefit from a stronger knife so that it can handle abuse that in no may means other knives are inferior because you choose to use them for purposes they were not intended. That is like saying bullet proof vests are inferior to a 2' plate steel suit because the bullet proof vest wont stop a missile. Well sure if you want to stop a missile a vest probably isnt your best choice. But we are still talking about using items outside their intended purpose of which you cant fault the design but rather your choice of implementation. That is what im saying.

 

[o4tg]

And if you edc a fixed blade of 1/2" sharpened s110v your the smartest? Not if you dont need it. Either way, I think I was pretty clear in what im saying. By your way of thinking if I took a pry bar and sharpened it and made a handle if folded into and used a hardened bolt as a pivot it would be stronger. But it doesnt end there for you. You seem to think that stronger is always superior. I am simply stating that I feel there is a point where stronger for the sake of being stronger isnt always optimal. You can ALWAYS make something stronger. There is no end all be all in strength. It can always be increased but at some point ergos, design limitations and weight will all suffer at some point. I simply feel that its not fair to label internal stop pin designs as inferior or weak when they do what they are intended to do. You have pretty much made it clear that you use your knives for things not intended for knives. So while you benefit from a stronger knife so that it can handle abuse that in no may means other knives are inferior because you choose to use them for purposes they were not intended. That is like saying bullet proof vests are inferior to a 2' plate steel suit because the bullet proof vest wont stop a missile. Well sure if you want to stop a missile a vest probably isnt your best choice. But we are still talking about using items outside their intended purpose of which you cant fault the design but rather your choice of implementation. That is what im saying.

If an external stop pin significantly altered knife designs, I would accept your point. But they don't. Internal stop pin blades are not only weaker, but the pins wear out faster too. This may not be the case on something like a Strider, but most internal stop pin knives use a much thinner pin than external designs. I myself have been guilty of accusing a liner of wearing early, only to open up the knife and find a heavily worn dinky little internal stop pin.

Your whole argument is that my use of a knife is invalid. Yet that does not change the fact that the vast majority of internal stop pin knives are weaker designs and more prone to wear. It's really that simple of a fact.