Am I too picky?

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IamMatt

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I had a run a while back where I bought knives that were described as "new" but when I got them they had, in my opinion, significant flaws. When the sellers were contacted (to their credit) they have all offered to either refund my money or agreed to a price adjustment. Just about all of them, however, were defensive, saying things like, "well the maarks you see are typical from opening and closing the knife it was never used" or saying that the knife was perfect when they sent it and implying that I had made the marks myself.

I think if you say a knife is NEW or NIB or similar language, it sould be without any marks, scratches, scuffs, etc. I have bought knives that were described as new and were indeed flawless. I hope any that I have sold and described as such were also that way.

But I got another one recently and I thought maybe I needed a reality check. Am I being too picky? Am I unreasonable in my expectations?

Let me say that I have also bought knives with descriptions like "never carried or used, but with typical minor handling marks" or "Like new except for one 3mm scratch on blade" which is fine. I don't mind buying knives that are imperfect; I just think that if it is described as "new" it should not have scratches, scuffs, or other damage or flaws.

Here are four knives and their descriptions. Your opinions and feedback are welcomed.

First one was described as "condition new as made."
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The next one was described as "all as new and unused."
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The one below was described as "NIB."
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And the last one was described as "Looks to be in new condition."
fa1ce925.jpg
 
No I don't think you are being picky. Some sellers don't undertand when they use, carry or let their knife get beat up it' no longer NIB. I now ask the seller does your knife have any cosmetic problems ,issues wiht fit and finish and has it been sharpened even if listed as NIB. Before I started asking extra questions, I bought a knife from a forum member that was listed as NIB. When I received the knife it had obviously been his EDC knife. I then questioned him regarding the condition but he basically said too bad because he sent me multiple pictures of very poor quality before hand and I still bought it. I'am sorry to say it's buyer beware unless the seller has lots of positive feedback. Larry
 
I am 50/50 on this one.If it is NIB or LNIB but does have some very small flaws that I can live with.I hardly ever get a knive new that does not have some minnor imperfection.Spyderco is getting worse mailly because they have stop putting any packing in the box with the knife.If it is new but has a larger flaw that should be disclosed to the buyer.
That Sebenza sure shouldn't have been listed as NIB.BTW I may have some trade goods if you would want to trade it.I would like to have one I don't have to worry about carrying.
 
I agree that many NIB knives have imperfections. I have gotten quite a few that had minor scratches and/or scuffs. I do think however that these should be pointed out when reselling a knife. It is my opinion that it is only right to do so.

I would be a little upset if I received those knives after being told they were NIB or LNIB. Those knives are obviously not in the condition described. Those imperfections are not the normal ones that you will see on a new knife.
 
I try and describe every mark on the knife to the potential buyer. No matter how small the mark may be. I try and avoid certain terms like new in box or whatever. I try and use words like used but not abused and go from there in the description. Hope this helps. Keep'em sharp
 
Dude. . .don't feel too bad. . .we've all (or most) have experienced that :) Pretty sad, I think !

Unfortunately, the problem is how others interpret NIB. It's amazing !

IMO, NIB means exactly that. NIB is the condition that the knife arrived in when "originally" shipped from the manufacturer.

And the examples that you've provided aren't NIB!

OTOH. . .some low/mid-end production knives will come, from the plant, with a flaw or 2. It's rare to have a high-end production or custom knife arrive with flaws. Not impossible - just very very very rare. And if they do. . .they are generally minute. And. . .there is a big difference between "carry/use" marks and production flaws !

While it's good to hear that the sellers offered a "refund or agreed to a price adjustment". . .it's poor form to make accusations that the knife was purposely harmed by the purchaser.

At one time I would ask the following (if I didn't know the seller):

"Blade been resharpened. Any scratches, nicks, dings, rub marks or any other blemishes on the blade, bolsters, scales and clip. Blade centered."

That isn't necessarily the cure all. Even when I've asked those questions. . .I've still received several knives that had some major flaws, i.e., screws stripped, sever lock engagement issues, blade edge that wouldn't cut butter, etc. :confused:

Now. . .I've included: what's the condition of all securing screws/devices, describe how the lock engages the blade, edge sharpness, and vertical/horizontal blade play.

Jezz. . .it ridiculous !

Until we get everyone to agree on a universal understanding of what NIB means (which we never will). . .you'll have to continue to play it by ear and ask a bunch of questions before you purchase. :(
 
No you are not too picky.

I quit buying knives here about a year ago due to similar problems. Over four years I had bought close to 100 knives from other members here. For the most part, the experience was positive, but I ran into a period that took away the fun.

Rant. - The last three Sebenzas I bought here were much less than described. The worst was a "NIB" small Solar Wind that had scuffs, rust, and looked like a cub scout pack had done their sharpening practice on it. The seller did refund my money but thought I was too picky and did not see anything wrong with the knife.

I agree that any imperfections should be described by the seller, even if they came that way from the factory. On many knives, the selling price for "NIB" vs. "used, but good condition" is not that much.

Having someone lie to me is much worse than a couple of scratches on a knife.
 
If these imperfections looked like they were factory made I might think you were being too picky, but these look like they occured during hard use. My Benchmade came with many against-the-grain scratches on the blade (very light) and I didn't care. If it came with an uneven edge from bad sharpening, scratched and scuffed handles, and clip scratches, I would have realized it wasn't so new.
 
Thanks for the input so far. The bottom two knives are Sebenzas, of course, and I have bought probably a dozen or so Sebenzas and Umfaans NEW from dealers and they were, whats the word I am looking for.....oh, yeah, NEW. As in wrapped in tissue, no marks, scratches, scuffs, dings, bends, chips, etc. That's what I consier NIB condition to mean. I have bought new customs from makers and dealers and they are also NEW and in the same condition. NIB (or "new") should mean something or it should not be used.

The top knives are a Pat Crawford French Folder and a Pat Crawford Flim Flam Folder.
 
Same has happened to me on occasion.

I have come to believe that one or more of the following scenarios are in play:

1: Seller can't see well.

2: Seller always describes NIB when they know it isn't.

3: Seller is stupid and or can't remember that they used it.

4: The seller is clueless about what NIB means, and they figure as long as it opens and closes then it's NIB.
 
You're not being picky here at all. NIB should stand for New In Box; not Nicked, Icked, and Blemished.

Yet another reason to be a stickler for definitions.

I'm sorry to witness the misrepresentations you received.
 
Originally posted by thombrogan
Nicked, Icked, and Blemished.
Click to expand...
LOL!!

Dave H,

I think (hope?) an alternative explanation is that someone bought the knife in what was new-ish condition, then put it in the safe or drawer and forgot about it, and when they pulled it out, they knew they had not used it so they thought of it as "new" and did not take a fresh, critical look at it.

The sellers were all people with excellent feedback on forums, eBay, etc. so I don't think anyone was trying to pull a fast one.
 
I 've sold you a knife before, Matt. In fact we talked about it over the phone for awhile, I don't think your picky at all. You were more than reasonable in your expectations regarding the knife I sold you, and those knives that you pictured above. A NIB knife should not look like pics you presented.

I bought a rare Brend blade knife off of the forums about a year ago. The seller said it was NIB. I jumped on it. When I received it, it was severely scratched and had rust spots!!!!!! I kindly asked for a refund and got it. Only problem I have ever had. I think people either don't realize their knives aren't NIB, or are trying to put one under the radar. You really can't buy without good pictures in advance anymore.
 
Originally posted by The Towcutter
I 've sold you a knife before, Matt. In fact we talked about it over the phone for awhile, I don't think your picky at all.

You really can't buy without good pictures in advance anymore.
Click to expand...
I like to have good pix when I can, but I think I am better protected by the integrity of the seller .

We have all seen how you can hold a knife one way in the light and it will appear flawless but if we move it another way the light will catch the flaws and make them stand out. Same with pictures. The knives above all came with pix that showed no flaws; I photographed them so that the flaws were visible.

In fact, I have read complaints in GBU where buyers have complained about flaws on knives they have bought and were told, "well, you saw the pictures." Doesn't do much good if they are taken to deliberately mask the flaws.

I even got one metal-handled knife that looked perfect in the pix but both sides were covered with scuffs (imagine a Sebenza carried in a pocket with keys for a few months). A professional photographer examined the pix I was sent and said he believed the photos were touched up!

Towcutter, I bet the damaged knife you bought could have been photographed in a way to hide the flaws too. I am happy about our deal (the DDG, right?) because of your honesty.
 
Matt,

"Am I being too picky? Am I unreasonable in my expectations?"
– Not at all!

"I think if you say a knife is NEW or NIB or similar language, it should be without any marks, scratches, scuffs, etc."
– I agree for the most part, but I have seen knives direct from the factory with defects, and so while they are "new" (meaning unused, not carried and so on), the defects should also be accurately described along with "new" when they are resold.

While I think "NIB" or "new" means a lot of different things to different people, undoubtedly some people intentionally fail to disclose what they might (or might not) feel are insignificant marks or flaws.

I also agree that pictures can help a lot, but I had one seller position the knife so the scratches did not appear in the photo (and this was the second picture, of the opposite side from the original photo in the ad, and of course the side of the knife in the original photo was flawless).

Another word often misused is "mint" – one dictionary has the definition: "unmarred; without blemish; as good as new", and yet I have seen "mint" used to describe knives that had very significant scuff marks visible in the pictures.

Unfortunately the bottom line is that not everyone is honest, or they might not feel the same way about a scratch on a knife the way some of us do, so dealing on the internet is definitely buyer beware. I recommend:
1) Ask lots of detailed questions.
2) Ask for additional photos (close-ups if needed) if you see something questionable in a picture.
3) Check feedback!
4) Realize this still does not guarantee the knife's condition is what you might expect.

While I have received some disappointing knives from BF members and others, for the most part the deals have gone well. Even though some disagree, I feel a list of descriptors, including "NIB", "new", "mint" and others, along with their definitions in the trade and sale forums would help alleviate some of the honest discrepancies encountered.

Gene
 
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