Am thinking about making an 'Authentic' Kephart sheath... could use some help.

Diomedes Industries

Diomedes Industries

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Mar 19, 2007
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Here is the original kephart and sheath that the man himself, Horace Kephart carried.

That sheath is so beat up - I can barely tell what it is.

Can anyone point me to a more modern - or better example of what this sheath looked like when it was new?

TF
 
Got me curious as well! I wonder what the back looks like?

I'll do some research as well.
 
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I have been looking around for some pictures. These knives above appear to be from the Horace Kephart Museum. Colclesser Brothers supposedly made his knife - but I can find - and others have said - that no one has seen an actual production knife of this design. There are pictures of THIS knife being carried by Horace Kephart and it appears he wore it until his death.

Much of this information comes from Mike of Bark River Knives from another board.

It seems to be an enigma - but Paul - if you are willing to speculate with me - and try to draw something up that is authentic - I would love to help.

I don't care about anything but the fun of the project! ;)

If anyone else can help on this one - that would be great.

TF
 
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Given this photo - my best guess (and I am likely off base) is that the belt slots were simply cut into the back of the sheath. The hole in the middle of the back was from a retaining strap that tore out.

What do you think?

TF
 
I agree on the torn out retainer strap, it happens first with those old designs , most of them were either riveted or a stitch or two sewn on. Neither is a good idea.

Though, I do want to see two layers of leather showing on the front. but I have seen the slotted sheaths in the past so it makes sense. I will download that clear pic and make it big for these sorry eyes that I got. Next time I sit in the LONG line for good eyes!!! :p
 
FYI - the rivets and burrs are copper in size 14 which are still available from some suppliers...and the leather appears to be 5/6oz or at most 6/7 oz typical of that period sheaths for this size knife.....
 
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I bet its the patina, but those rivets and burrs look like brass to me. I have some just that size and material I got for civil war re-creation.
 
Tal, I will be glad to draw up a pattern for the sheath, but I will need a very accurate outline tracing of the entire knife you are going to use.
I will be departing for the Blade show in Atlanta tomorrow and will not return until Monday next. If you will send me the tracing I will do the pattern when I get back. I agree with the opinions so far. The belt slots are just cut into the back and the hole in the center of the back was probably the attachment point for the around the handle retention strap. Finding hardware and snaps to match the period will be a chore and may not even be possible.

My mailing address is below.

Paul
 
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Paul - Will do.

Check out this Photo of the man:
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It was suggested in the Knifemakers forum (where I posed the question) that he may have worn his sheath from the buttons on his pants the held up his suspenders.

Thoughts?

TF
 
I personally think the slot is a button hole for mounting the sheath to a suspender button. As someone else agreed and pointed out in another thread, belts were not as popular as suspenders at that time.
 
With continued thought, I guess the button hole idea is as good as the torn retention strap theory. Who knows?.....not me. If part of the handle goes into the body of the sheath, then further retention may not have seemed necessary. Plus the fact the people who really use and depend on their knives generally keep pretty good track of them and know where they are all the time...........and probably were not given to wild gymnastics that might cause the knife to depart the sheath unexpectedly. A photo of the knife in the sheath would address many of these questions.

Paul
 
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I hear you Paul - it could be that the slits cut were cut to be used at the button holes of the suspenders - and as belt loops.

I e-mailed the curator in control of his effects - and asked for better photo's of the sheath.

Hopefully that will turn up something - who knows.

I just won't like it if Rick is right. He is so smug anyway. ;)

TF
 
Ha!... Tal, you kill me bro! Arrogant?... Me?... You know I'm above that sort of thing.

Seriously though, I bet the guy had as many ways to wear a knife as he did to hold his pants up! I went through that whole photo album and saw him with and without a belt. It is fun to speculate, but it would be nice to get some verification. Does he speak about knife carry in any of his writings? The picture you posted is interesting but could very well be the way he wore it "that day".
 
Agreed - I will re-read his book on Camping - and see what he has to say. I have little better to do - I am teaching World Religions this semester - I mean - it isn't like God has changed much...

TF
 
Okay - something cool:

I am in contact with the Curator of the The Mountain Heritage Center that actually has the knife and the sheath. I will be asking / begging her for better photo's.

Perhaps, if she is willing, she could give us some specs as well. That would help those trying to make a replica of this knife in the future.

I think that would be a cool tribute to Mr. Kephart.

TF
 
I received an e-mail back from the Curator this morning - and the director of the museum is out this week - but she will be asking him for higher quality photo's of the knife and sheath with scale for reference. I ensured her that his information would be shared with the community and was not to be used as any sort of proprietary information.

Hopefully this request will be granted and we will be able to get some great photo's - with scale!

Cross your fingers!

TF
 
I think Paul is on to something with the knife sitting deeper in the sheath, there appears to be a molded area about an inch deep. :)

I love the button hole idea! The sheath would flop a little when walking, but its a nifty idea.

I hope you get those pics TF! That would be fantastic! Be sure to ask about those rivets as well, I'm very curious.
 
leatherman said:
I bet its the patina, but those rivets and burrs look like brass to me. I have some just that size and material I got for civil war re-creation.
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Dwayne - both types, copper and brass, were used in period, but brass rivets were used almost exclusively by the military. As for the patina - I've aged hundreds if not thousands of both types and when doing repair work on old stuff so many "naturally" aged". Generally you can't tell the difference between the two just by ere, especially since on old period stuff it is even harder to tell since the brass at that time was commonly the simple and traditional alloy of 10-15% zinc and the rest copper. Modern brass mixes are generally different in the ratios and often have other alloys included..

An yep looking at it closer I tend to agree with Rick re: the suspender button carry and that the front of the sheath was originally full length
 
Not questioning you at all my friend, just very curious, I'm flawed that way. ;)

Copper tends to age darker than brass and that is what caught my eye, I thought it interesting that he might have used brass over the more readily available copper. Even today its much easier to find copper rivets than brass. Took me several months to find what I have, with the domed head rather than the easier to find flat head.
 
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