Amateur bladesmith seeking sharpening advice.

A

Angus96

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Dec 13, 2012
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Firstly im completely new to BladeForums so hi everyone!

So I've always been fascinated with knives and i have several whetstones (im not sure of the grits but i have a 2-sided long rectangular one and quite a fine circular one), i have never been able to get consistant results however. I am slightly confused as to what method to use too because everyone i ask has different advice. I have finally made my own knife now and i think it has potential to be an absolute beast. I forged it out of a thick section of K245 steel and it is zone tempered (about 58-57 rockwell on the edge i think), the blade is 13cm (5in) long x 3.6cm (1.5in) x 3mm (1/8in) thick. What would be the best way to sharpen this knife (for reasonably easy use ie. carving and chopping green wood)? I have also been thinking about buying a Spyderco Sharpmaker because they seem a bit more fool proof. Please ask questions and comment!

Please any thoughts or sharpening advice would be much appreciated.
 
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Welcome to Shop Talk, a Bladeforums.

Filling out your profile will help us give better answers. Age, location, occupation, etc.

Sharpening requires very little more than a flat abrasive surface and a constant angle of the blade against it. All the jigs and "systems" do is provide these two elements. Until you know what makes a good edge, the "systems" aren't necessarily going to do it well. Once you know what makes a good edge, you won't need them.


I don't know about your HT on this blade, but Rc62 edges can be hard to get properly sharpened without DMT ( diamond) sharpening plates. A medium/fine combo plate may be a good investment. Take the edge down with your coarse bench stone and then go to the diamond plates for a flatter edge.

Here is a basic sharpening guide to get started on:
Take an old kitchen knife and dull it down to a very blunt edge. Use this to practice the following learning tests.
Take the coarse side of your two side stone and hold the blade straight up over it. That is 90°. Now turn it to half that angle - 45°, again half that 22.5°, once more to get around 10-11°. That is the angle that the edge should be sharpened at for a good slicer. For a general user, a bit higher - around 12-15° is good. These angles represent one side of the blade. The combined ( included) angle of the edge is twice that. Most folks read the recommended "edge" angles in a book and are trying to sharpen their blades at twice the desired angle....and they cut poorly.

Once you have an eye for how low the angle actually is, put a few drops of light oil on the coarse side of the stone and start sharpening the blade. Do one side for a minute, then flip and do the other. As the edge forms, check it for evenness and see that the edge stays straight down the center. Continue until the edge is well formed. Wipe off the stone and turn to the finer side. Repeat the sharpening until the edge is smooth and even. It should feel sharp, but you aren't there yet. There is a thin "wire" on the edge that needs to come off. Make or buy a leather strop. It is an 50cm by 5cm board with a strip of leather glued to it. Charge the leather with some red rouge, and strop the knife at the same angle you sharpened it at. About three strokes, turn over, three more, turn, two strokes, turn, two strokes - stop. Take a piece of printer paper and slice down it with the blade. It should cut smooth and not catch or drag. If there is an area that has a catch, strop a few more times and try again. If it still has a bad spot, examine the edge with a magnifier, and you will probably see a place where you haven't formed a proper edge yet. Go back to the fine stone and work the edge some more, then strop again and test.

Once you have that down well, do it on your new knife.
 
Good tutorial Stacy.

Angus, If you have access to a miter saw, cut a few degree wedges to use with your abrasive plates. You can cut them from 2x2 inch wood stock. Use these degree wedges by setting them on your stone or diamond plate and then place the ricasso of your knife on the degree wedge. Cut the wedges at 10 11 12 degrees, this will cover most sharpening angles. Fred
 
A red sharpie used to color the sides of the edge will help you see where the stone is abrading the steel.
 
Go to Youtube and look up Carter Cutlery. He has several videos on how to sharpen on stones
 
Hand sharpening is all feel and repetition. Unless you get one of the systems with a jig to set the angles, it is just going to take lots of practice. I used to suck with a strop, now I can get blades razor sharp in a few strokes on each side. Good luck.
 
Hand sharpening is all feel and repetition. Unless you get one of the systems with a jig to set the angles, it is just going to take lots of practice. I used to suck with a strop, now I can get blades razor sharp in a few strokes on each side. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the help everyone! I misread my notes too the blade of my new knife is 57-58 Rockwell on the edge. Any tips on flattening whetstones? The large two sided one i have is grooved (has a ")" cros-section) I've tried rubbing it on a cinder block but it wasn't very effective. Also when sharpening should the knife be traveling sharp edge first?
 
Angus96 said:
Thanks for the help everyone! I misread my notes too the blade of my new knife is 57-58 Rockwell on the edge. Any tips on flattening whetstones? The large two sided one i have is grooved (has a ")" cros-section) I've tried rubbing it on a cinder block but it wasn't very effective. Also when sharpening should the knife be traveling sharp edge first?
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Edge first is correct; get a new stone. Take a look at the Duo Sharp diamond stones. They are excellent and last a lifetime.
 
If you use a stone often, get a flattening stone. It is a large silicon carbide coarse stone with grooves. You work the non-flat stone on it until it is flat.

An alternate is to use a sheet of 50-80 grit Wet-or-Dry paper taped down on a sheet of glass. Put some water on it and work the stone flat.

Most folks just get a new stone and try to keep it flat.

DMT duo-sharp plates come in a variety of grit combos. The coarse/fine will do edge sharpening fast. It costs $99.95 at Woodcraft.
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/20...stone-finecoarse-with-duosharp-plus-base.aspx
Individual plates in other grits are about $89-99 each.

These folks sell a kit with two plates and the base that covers extra-coarse through extra-fine for $139.95
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-Duosharp-Plus-Diamond-Kit-P248C3.aspx

The push vs pull sharpening technique is partly based on what you are using and how skilled you are. I think the prime factor is what your Grandpa did. He showed your dad, and dad showed you.
I use a pull stroke once I have set the edge. The strop takes off the wire. The push stroke does not build a wire, but can damage a softer stone if the edge digs in. Some of my stones are Japanese natural stones, and are soft as well as very expensive. I try and avoid any damage. When working a Norton synthetic or Carborundum stone, it isn't such a worry.
A poll taken this summer by Woodcarving Illustrated magazine showed that 2/3 pulled and 1/3 pushed.
Truth is, it doesn't matter all that much to the knife blade.
 
On the up side, even if you don't master it and keep making knives, the sharpening bit just sort of comes to you as you work on your grinding and sanding skills. All that time spent learning to hold angles and maintain consistency carry over. At least it did for me. I'm still a mediocre knife maker at best but sharpening has gotten very easy.
 
One thing that really helps is understanding what sharp is. I thought I new, then I got acquainted with someone who new how to get the most out of an edge.
Once I understood how sharp an edge can be I had a target to shoot for.
Fred
 
I think i'll save up for the DMT kit with 4 grits. Thanks again everyone especially Bladsmth and Fred.
 
Edge Pro sharpening system is top notch but not cheap. DMT makes some excellent products that will give great results. Which ever sharpening system you choose a Sharpie marker will be your most useful item. Use the marker to color the edge on both sides for a great visual of where the stones are cutting.
 
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