Amateur sheathmakers beware! (TK gripe!)

Mickey,
For glue, Oatey in the Orange can works. www.oatey.com
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>)-RadarMan-(<
age:38
A good word now is worth ten on a headstone -- Vermont Proverb
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[This message has been edited by RadarMan (edited 13 October 1999).]

[This message has been edited by RadarMan (edited 14 October 1999).]
 
Lewis, thanks for the encouragement! If you need any hints, just drop an email and I can help you out.
RadarMan, where can the Oatey glue be purchased, and I assume the edges that are being joined will need to be scuffed up first? What can be expected, durability-wise, by using it solo? Does it get brittle with low temperature changes?

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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
Hi everyone,
I'm just following this thread and picking up some ideas. At this point I have made about a dozen, good, functional Kydex sheaths. Chiro could have made about 40 sheaths out of what I scrapped!!!
Lynn, you put your rivets in before you form the Kydex??? Is that how you made my Sniper sheath??? How do the holes all stay in line?? This is one idea that I'll try!!
Let me just add this.... I find that the .093 material has to be heated much more than the .060 to get a good form. I raised the heat untill it started sticking to my forming foam, thats between 275-300.
Neil


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Just updated!!!!
http://members.aol.com/blademakr/BlackwoodWP.html

 
Scraps add up fast, eh Lathe?
wink.gif
I've actually made sheaths from scraps, in fact! My personal Sean Perkins Seraph sheath is made from scraps.

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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
Chiro,
Thanks for the offer, I will be emailing you soon.

Dr. Lathe,
Just checked your site, and could not get any of the new pics to download. This is especially bad because I want to see what you have in stock. I really liked the pics of the tactical knife that were there.
 
Thanks for the tip on the Oateys,Radarman.I will have to pick some up and try it out. Mickey
 
I purchased a tube of Power Poxy Plastic Bonder (amber color) from Wal-Mart. I have used it to tighten the hold on some of my kydex sheaths by glueing the edges of the sheath together. Seems to work well. I'll let you know how it holds up over the winter.
 
As far as glues go, I tried using regular 2 Ton eopxy that I use on handle scales a wlong time ago and it was worthless. I haven't tried Oatey, nor probably will I unless a customer asks for a sheath sans hardware, but I would fathom a guess that the Oatey stuff is more rubbery or flexible than epoxy. Epoxy will just crack when the sheath is flexed a bit, or, at least, that's what the 2 Ton did.

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
Rivets and eyelets are fine for construction. I shoose not to use them for two reasons: first, they seem to come loose pretty easily.
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Chiro,
If you are having that problem, you are using the wrong eyelets. The eyelets I use can not be torn apart. Once they are in there, you can not get them out.


Lynn, you put your rivets in before you form the Kydex??? Is that how you made my Sniper sheath???
Click to expand...
Dr. Lathe,
Yes. That is how I did the "Sniper" sheath.

Here is a link to a picture of my "Sniper" Sheath System. Picture is in the review of the "Sniper" by St. James.
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000128.html


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Lynn GriffithMy website
GriffithKN@aol.com


 
Chiro,

If I remember correctly, Oatey is used to glue PVC pipe. It is similar to model airplane cement in that it fuses plastic together. I have a friend who used it on a Kydex sheath he made and it seemed to do a passable job.

Mike Moore
 
Oh, yeah...and about the heat gun, I would recommend against using it for anything other than light touch-up work. You can easily scorch the material and overheat it, as well as leave shiny patches. The heat gun is invaluable for touch-up work, but not too good for doing the whole sheath.
As far as fumes go, you are correct in stating they are bad news. Kydex, and probably Concealex, will give off formaldehyde gas (a known carcinogen) during heating, so use a well-ventilated work area. For the right-sized projects you can always use a toaster oven (look in pawn shops or thrift stores for really cheap ones) to do the heating, too. The dust is probably pretty obnoxious, too, so wear a dust mask or ventilator.

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
Also concerning rivets, turn the page of this issue of TK a couple pages for a very riveting experience. I believe page 66 shows just how much large nifers like those tie points. Those sheaths will not fall off anything when 550 is strung through those holes.

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&gt;)-RadarMan-(&lt;
age:38
A good word now is worth ten on a headstone -- Vermont Proverb
Click to expand...

 
RadarMan, while at first glance it appears you are correct that, pages 66-67 of TJ support your opinion that eyelets are essential for lashing sheaths to equipment, a second more careful look will show that, in fact, the pictures support my opinion that they are not required for such a purpose. It appears to me that, in the case of the Mineral Mountain knives, the eyelets are there for cosmetic reasons. Sure, they would also serve to allow paracord, as long as it would fit through. The Livesay LBE sheath, though, is what really shows what i am talking about. Newt uses a whole bunch of eyelets, but look closely as to which holes are actually supporting the paracord! My original point still stands: eyelets are only needed as reinforcement-type support in cases where ball chain will be used for neck carry. Paracord is soft enough and slippery enough that it will not wear the holes down whether they are strapped to a pack or hung around the neck or whatever.
We could argue all day about the cosmetic value of the eyelets, which, it is certainly true, attracts many makers to their use (not to mention the economy of them). In cases where a customer wants the ability to strap the sheath down, I alternate screw, empty hole, screw, etc. I think the look of an empty hole, if it has been nicely chamfered/countersunk, is attractive. It's one less piece of hardware that will attract the eyes of other people. It's one less piece of hardware that will lose its black coating and turn shiny. And, quite frankly, it's one less area that will grab sensitive body hair on the user, especially in neck and moreso in IWB/SOB carry. Also one less piece of metal that will be cold against the skin in the winter-time! The list goes one and on. Finally, the advantage to not using eyelets is, still, the ability to open the sheath for whatever reason necessary.
I'm not saying guys who are using eyelets are bad people, I'm just reiterating the fact that, in 90% of the cases, they simply are not needed.

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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
I read the article in TK and would recommend the methods mentioned as a great guide for first timers or those who have always done things differently. If you are new to thermo forming this article provides a solid way of producing a good quality sheath without a lot of guesswork. It also seems to offer a low tech method for acquiring a measure of repeatability that would reduce time for a knife maker that produces his knives in small batches (10-25 or so). As one becomes competent in one way of doing things he can expand on it by trying things differently based on what he has learned and on what makes sense for the application at hand. All this seemed to be the intent of the article as I saw nothing to beware of. In my experience there is no question the Oatey PVC glue, when properly applied (you know .. when the directions on the can are followed), creates a bond that is many times stronger then rivets ( or other fasteners) alone. The use of this type of glue is helpful in anchoring parts that need to stay aligned during various assembly operations and also enhances the edge work. Last; this type of glue makes possible the lamination of parts. Such lamination or layering allows the savvy sheath maker to strategically control flexibility and tension by varying the material thickness as well as the geometry.

As far as safety and hazards in working with Kydex it seems as if there are some misconceptions. First it is not possible for kydex to produce formaldehyde gas. The Kleardex Company sites the flash point at 500 degrees and warns that slow release of hydrogen chloride gas and acrylic monomer vapors will occur when the material is heated above 400 degrease. As far as Carcinogenicity; the MSDS states that Kydex contains less then 0.1% of substances listed as carcinogen by IARC, NTP or OSHA. Control measures for working with Kydex include; Local exhaust, normal room ventilation with no special facilities needed. No respiratory protection is recommended for normal operations except when dust from sawing or sanding is present above 5 mg/m3. For me I always wear safety glasses and a simple breathing mask when sanding or otherwise machining the material. I also, hold my breath when removing Kydex from the thermal units as I do not want to breath any vapors regardless of who says its safe. The best source for all this information is the MSDS. I would suggest that anyone working with Kydex acquire the Material Safety Data Sheet first. It has all the facts and recommendations for the safe handling of the material. Don’t trust your health to me or anyone else as you never know if you are being given the facts or simply what seems like should make sense at the time by the person advising you.
 
Scott, thanks for the technical info, but I do disagree with the statement that no harmful gases are produced at the working temps used in forming synthetics for knives and holsters. Some level of these gases will be produced at any temperature. It is a fact of physics and chemistry. Perhaps no significant levels will be produced, but even by using your nose you can tell something not too great is coming from the stuff when it is heated. And, as you stated, no special measures need to be taken, but good ventilation, a fan on, etc would be a smart idea. Also, as per the dust, I agree with your statements on protection. I don't think a ventilator is required, although you can never be too careful when it comes to your own health. Even at low levels dust is, at best, obnoxious, and it can build up in your lungs and respiratory tract.

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
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