Amazing destruction of a Ang Khola!

Not to pick on you, but I'm not sure about some of this.

killa_concept said:
Are any of those knives 3/8-1/2" Thick? Hell no. Of course those knives will "spring" back to shape... they're made of stamped sheet metal probably 3/32" thick... besides, do you really want a 2 pound piece of steel with a razor edge to be "springing" around after a forceful blow? Not only is it dangerous, but it has no feasible benefit whatsoever - a proper heat treat of a knife will allow it to bend (rather than snap) when subjected to high strain like in the video
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I have several swords made of similar steel at a spring temper and they have been misused spectacularly, but none of them "spring" when striking with the edge. A blade as wide as a khukuri (or sword) simply won't do that, no matter how hard you're swinging it.

A spring temper on the spine will not cause a blade to snap. Such a temper performs the exact opposite. It will still bend. It will probably require more force to bend it, in fact, and it will be able to bend a bit and still return to true afterward. In short, there would be no disadvantage at all to a spring-tempered spine and significant advantages added on. I disagree strongly that a blade with a hard edge and a spring temper on the spine is a bad idea. It's an excellent idea, and is probably what the kamis are shooting for as an ideal heat treat.

killa_concept said:
Read up on proper heat treating - specifically differential hardening. You want a soft spine and a hard (yet not brittle) edge on a hard impact blade... the hardened edge allows for a good cut while the soft spine allows the knife or sword to not shatter upon impact. Many famous blade styles have implemented this throughout history - most notably japanese katanas.
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Sort of. You want a softer spine, not a soft one, and even that is incorrect. You want a "springy" one. The fact that softness is often a result of springiness is one that we must live with, but remember what we're looking for here. Springiness supports the hard edge, absorbs energy, and resists snapping or bending. Softness on its own is undesirable.

killa_concept said:
Again - none of those blades were 3/8-1/2" thick and the bending is indicative of a proper heat treat, not a lack of one.
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Again, I strongly disagree. Bending is indicative of an improper but basically acceptable heat treat. Ideally, it would have sprung back instead of taking a set.

That having been said, how many people are going to bend one, even heat treated like this? Very few, and they're going to have to work at it. Let's not try to make this sound like it's what we want, though, because it's not. True, we'd prefer it over brittleness, but I'd prefer a spring temper (in the spine) over either. Due to the nature of the kamis' heat treating process we won't get perfect ones every time, but we will get ones that are close enough for government work (like this one was) nearly every time. :thumbup:
 
Hrm... Im not sure if I like the rifle more or the khukri:P I have to say though, if I had to choose two things for a survival situation, I those would be my choice :) Oh, and lotsa ammo. Thanks for the photo!


And also, I agree with Dave. If you have the choice, I would choose springyness over bending. For example, your knife has been misused and had a large side load put on it. Would you rather your knife bends to some angle, or would you rather it bends, and then springs back? Of course you would rather have the latter. Who would want their blade to bend? Now, that being said, of course bending is preferable to breaking. Anyways, thanks Dave. I was feeling under attack for something that made sense to me :P

Now, I am curious about another thing. From my reading, it seems that the hardened area on these blades is actually fair small. As in, only the cutting edge of the blade is hardened in the 'sweet' zone. Is this true? It would seem to me that if that were the case, then a poorly aimed cut/blow with the blade would dull the unhardened cutting edge. Would it not be best to have the entire cutting edge from handle to tip hardened? Again, just my thoughts. Maybe im missing something.
 
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GregS said:
I have alway felt that little AK outperformed even the mighty Battle Mistress in those "tests". He never was able to break the blade.
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A traditional handmade and blessed Brave blade that didn't deserve the disrespect it got.:mad: But it handled it.:cool:
Tear up all the mass produced, stamped out stuff you want, for whatever percieved rationale, but doing this to a kukhri made the way the kamis do it ain't right IMHO. Those tests show nothing that a thousand years of tradition have already proven worthy.
 
mleec321 said:
Now, I am curious about another thing. From my reading, it seems that the hardened area on these blades is actually fair small. As in, only the cutting edge of the blade is hardened in the 'sweet' zone. Is this true? It would seem to me that if that were the case, then a poorly aimed cut/blow with the blade would dull the unhardened cutting edge. Would it not be best to have the entire cutting edge from handle to tip hardened? Again, just my thoughts. Maybe im missing something.
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The hardened area is a bit longer than you think it is. It's...about where a good 90% of your chopping will be done anyway. The unhardened areas will dull easier but from my own observations from use, it's not that bad. These things are forged from Mercedes truck leaf springs (from what we've reckoned on here it's 5150, 5160 or something similar), really tough stuff. The benefits of this is the tip is softer, and less likely to snap should you accidentally hit a rock, and the portion of the blade near the bolster and the tang itself are also softer and also less likely to break during hard use.
 
I dfistinctly remember when prying out a notch when building one of the log cabins with my M-43, having the blade flex to the side 30 degrees or more before the wood gave way. The blade went right back to true. Tough enough for my rather high standards.
 
mleec321 said:
Now, I am curious about another thing. From my reading, it seems that the hardened area on these blades is actually fair small. As in, only the cutting edge of the blade is hardened in the 'sweet' zone. Is this true?
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Not always. I've etched a number of them and it can vary quite a bit, not only by kami and model, but also by time period. I've seen at least one that was only hardened over a few inches, and I have a number of them that are hardened from the bend to the tip. I've seen at least one that I recall that was hardened nearly all the way back to the bolster.

Just being hardened in the sweet spot is not necessarily a flaw and is certainly not a critical one if it is, although more coverage is probably desirable. As has been mentioned, leaving the tip at a spring temper can be a good thing, as in field use the tip will tend to hit things that you'd rather not hit (such as a rock in the ground, or that chain link fence behind the tree...don't ask me how I know these things) and that at a softer temper, the steel will roll or even dent, but it will not chip, crack, or snap; a bend or a wave can be hammered out, but a chip or a crack must be ground out. Besides this, the tip is not often used with a khukuri so it's not particularly important what's going on up there. I'm not saying that I'm totally in agreement with this; I'm merely pointing out the rationale behind it.

Regardless, there is little point in hardening the edge below the bend. Not only is this an extremely inefficient area to chop with; it's also nearly impossible to chop with, even if you wanted to. Because it can't readily be used, there's not much sense in making it hard. Even if it were completely dull, the khukuri's effectiveness would be unchanged for most users.

Bearing all this in mind, one can probably get away with only a little bit of the edge hardened. I want to stress that this is not the norm, though. Generally speaking, the hardened zones that I've seen were longer than strictly necessary.
 
Dave Rishar said:
I've etched a number of them and it can vary quite a bit, not only by kami and model, but also by time period.
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Are you "etching" the blade to test hardness? Or to differentiate/distinguish/define the areas that have been differentially hardened?

If the former would you have a more specific search term (or if this has been covered previously a link?)? Searching for "etching" seems to be bringing up imprinting logos and defining a Damascus pattern regardless of any other search terms included.
 
I believe that the etching was only to define the areas that have been hardened. Etching wouldn't be able to tell you how hard it was. Its also possible the etching could have been done for aesthetic reasons.
 
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Wolf_1989 said:
mleec321 said:
Lol, I know some of those tests are pretty stupid. But overall, I think they go to show that the AK is a very tough blade!

If the CAK came in a 20 inch version, I would buy it now. Lol
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They do exist! Email Ms Yangdu; she might have one in stock. Corporal Punishment has one he's rather fond of, and I have a hybridized 20" CAK-ish variant.
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LOL, actually, I have a few 20 inchers.

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20CAK01.jpg

CAKs.jpg


Let's not forget KukZilla, my 25" CAK:
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Several AKs...
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John Shields said:
That beast is almost as big as the AK (rifle). Wow. :eek:
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The Cpl sure likes big blades ... so do I but I defer to him as he actually uses his, whereas I just admire and polish mine. :o

If your lucky he will post photo's of his Giant Chitlangi Bowie and Bhairab.;)
 
Well, Im trying to aquire a CAK thats at least 20". Unfortunatly, Ms Yangdu doesnt have one in stock. Sigh....
 
mleec321 said:
Well, Im trying to aquire a CAK thats at least 20". Unfortunatly, Ms Yangdu doesnt have one in stock. Sigh....
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I don't know the length of the Super CAK, but they're going to be made available next month. I'm sitting on my wallet right now trying to fight the urge to order one now.

Might be another route for you.
 
Those ARE very nice blades.

Just curious, whats makes a Super CAK super, as opposed to just a CAK?
 
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