Amazing steel vs Amazing heat treat?

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This is a philosophy and preference question, do you prefer a more simple less "preferable" steel with an absolutely amazing heat treat (Like what Ka-bar and Cold Steel's known for with 1095, SK5, Carbon V, O-1) Or do you prefer a complicated awesome steel that relies less on a heat treat which I really don't like writing a list for.
 
I like the "simple" steels like 1095, AUS8 etc. very much. They do what I need, and I can easily resharpen them, sometimes even without "real" sharpening equipment.
For the tasks I use a knife for, I don't need superb edge retention. I just touch up at the end of the day and I'm good. Or use another knife, since I rarely carry only one. (This is BF,right ? :D)
I do like some "better" steels too, like D2 or 154cm, RWL34 or 14C28N. I honestly wouldn't mind using only AUS8 or 154cm for the rest of my life. Mankind has used much, much lesser steels (or no steel at all) for quite some time now. Super steels or not is a very first-world-problem IMHO.

A good heat treatment is something I expect when I buy from a reputable knife company, even though a couple of them stand out, like ESEE's (Rowen's) 1095 or Cold Steel's AUS8. But 1095 or AUS8 from Ontario for example isn't that much worse that you couldn't use it.
 
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IMHO that's more like asking do you prefer good car w/o engine vs. good engine w/o car :)
One doesn't work without the other. You can botch HT on any steel so bad, it will be unusable. Some steels are easier to HT than the others, but tolerances and protocols are there for a reason.
 
I like my steels both simple and complicated... :rolleyes:;):D

I own all sorts of production knives from Opinels to spydie gayle bradleys; I guess it is dictated by the task. I do prefer the higher end stuff (3V is a favourite!) just because it does work well and for a longer period of time. :thumbup::thumbup:

It's even more fun with custom knives as they can really optimize the heat treat (higher HRC, Cryo temper, multiple temperings etc.) to get the most out of a given blade steel.
 
If the heat treat is bad the steel will be bad. Doesn't matter what steel it is.
 
But kabar and cold steel do not do wonders with their HT. It is simply correct HT.

Amazing HT can be found with custom makers. But i prefer complete package, begining with amazing grind and ergonomy.
 
One of my favorite go to, hard use, knives is my KaBar next gen in 440A... and I must say, it'll be a cold day in Hell before some modern high end steel knocks it off it's pedestal...which isn't to say that I haven't considered picking up its D2 bladed brother... but still. I really think KaBar does an excellent job making the most of what would otherwise be considered a very low-end steel...though they do charge a premium.
A certain well-regarded custom maker once told me (after moving from 440C to s35vn in his line) that, in his experience, heat treat was far far more important than steel type... That said, last I saw he was using m390... so... ymmv... :)
 
Doesn't surprise me that you like 440A for "hard use". While its not an edge retention wonder, its relatively tough for a budget stainless steel. I have a Boker Magnum fixed blade that I've abused as a prybar and other things and it has held up quite well. The steel is on the soft side too, so it doesn't chip easily and rather bends than breaks.
 
Steel isn't amazing without a proper heat treat, regardless of what's in the alloy. M390, M4, S110v, etc won't outperform 440C or AUS8 if they aren't tempered to do so.
 
As others have hinted at, your premise is deeply flawed to begin with.

Simple low-alloy steels like O1, 1095 etc are really pretty straightforward to heat-treat very well and bring to their highest potential... despite what some marketing cats would have you believe, there are no "secrets" to HT'ing any of those steels. It's pretty much either right or it's terrible. The difference between one manufacturer's HT and another's on the same steel usually boil down to nothing more "magic" than how soft they tempered it back... 1095 at 60Rc will perform lots different than 1095 at 56Rc.

Complicated high-alloy steels are much less forgiving, and require much tighter tolerances, additional procedures and more time/energy to do right. Using a "super awesome" steel with half-vast HT would be like putting worn-out snow tires on a Ferrari - a complete waste of time and money.
 
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There's three things to making a good knife IMO.
Good geometry both of the edge and the knife as a whole.
Good heat treat.
Good steel.

The first two are vastly more important than the third.
 
As long as it's a decent knife made by a reputable company I don't worry about the type of steel. The only distinction I make is carbon or stainless. Even then I like both. Never really met a steel I didn't like.;)
 
I'm not a metallurgist, and there are many here who know far more than me about this, but the more I learn the more I suspect that there is no 'amazing' heat treat. My deep suspiscion is that heat treat is more accurately seperated into proper and improper. I could be wildly wrong, however.
 
C_Becker said:
I like the "simple" steels like 1095, AUS8 etc. very much. They do what I need, and I can easily resharpen them, sometimes even without "real" sharpening equipment.
For the tasks I use a knife for, I don't need superb edge retention. I just touch up at the end of the day and I'm good. Or use another knife, since I rarely carry only one. (This is BF,right ? :D)
I do like some "better" steels too, like D2 or 154cm, RWL34 or 14C28N. I honestly wouldn't mind using only AUS8 or 154cm for the rest of my life. Mankind has used much, much lesser steels (or no steel at all) for quite some time now. Super steels or not is a very first-world-problem IMHO.

A good heat treatment is something I expect when I buy from a reputable knife company, even though a couple of them stand out, like ESEE's (Rowen's) 1095 or Cold Steel's AUS8. But 1095 or AUS8 from Ontario for example isn't that much worse that you couldn't use it.
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My name is AntDog and I approve this message.
 
Bigbobg said:
As long as it's a decent knife made by a reputable company I don't worry about the type of steel. The only distinction I make is carbon or stainless. Even then I like both. Never really met a steel I didn't like.;)
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couldn't agree more. usually most steels done right will do most jobs better than most of us will need
 
What I was personally getting at is what some of you have already said. "Heat treat can be/is more important than the type of steel." But I was trying to ask if your philosophy of buying, at the same time. Sorry I didn't convey my message well. I was also asking what do you prefer, a more simple steel with all the bells and whistles (fancy/right/superb heat treat) or a fancy steel that takes a more uniform heat treat.
 
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If I may rephrase

K1: amazing steel = top line PM steel (e.g. s110v, m390) with on-spec precision ht (think Spyderco or Peters HT services, etc..)

K2: amazing ht simple or low alloy steel = e.g. 1095 or 52100 with super cool (voodoo) proprietary ht

Choose K1 or K2 would depend on usage and expectation/compromise

1. high wear resistance
2. high strength
3. high sharpness and edge stability (stay super sharp a long time, i.e. doesn't quickly degrade into a working edge)
4. high toughness (impact & lateral)
5. very easy to sharpen

I want a knife has at least 4.75 attributes above. K3 so be it :cool:
 
james terrio said:
As others have hinted at, your premise is deeply flawed to begin with.

Simple low-alloy steels like O1, 1095 etc are really pretty straightforward to heat-treat very well and bring to their highest potential... despite what some marketing cats would have you believe, there are no "secrets" to HT'ing any of those steels. It's pretty much either right or it's terrible. The difference between one manufacturer's HT and another's on the same steel usually boil down to nothing more "magic" than how soft they tempered it back... 1095 at 60Rc will perform lots different than 1095 at 56Rc.

Complicated high-alloy steels are much less forgiving, and require much tighter tolerances, additional procedures and more time/energy to do right. Using a "super awesome" steel with half-vast HT would be like putting worn-out snow tires on a Ferrari - a complete waste of time and money.
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My thinking exactly James. Hit the sweet spot with the simple steels, not too hard, not too soft , just right and you will have a very good blade. Of course the grind has to be appropriate and the steel fine grained, not damaged by the process.
 
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