American Indian Survival Knife

T

Trekker

Joined
Apr 30, 2003
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53
What kind of knife did the American Indians use? I'm looking for pictures of there steel knives.
 
From what I have seen in museums and pictures, they were typically 5-9" more-of-less saber-ground blades made of 1/8" or less carbon steel stock. The sheaths were far more impressive than the knives. The "Mountain Men" carried the same sort of knives -- with less impressive sheaths. (Try a search for "trade knives" on Google.)
 
the blades on trade knives were almost always made from old files, brass, or copper stock. they had straight backs and the blades were on average 7" long by 1" to 1 1/4" wide. realtively short, and very decrative handles of bone,antler, or wood. they looked alot like steak knives really. the blades usually were mounted by a tapered tang, no rivets. they also could have carried a smatchet type knife, a bowie, just about anything imaginable could have been carried. there was even some calvary swords being converted, where they took of the handle and attached a new one made of a piece of wood or horn. much like a one handed katana. probly one of the most dangerous close-quarter weapon known to the indian batteground.
 
remember that before the white man, there was no iron or steel in the N. america. it was all underground. the great lakes indians had copper, but no tin or zinc. most tools were of stone and wood, as well as antler and horn. steel knives sold around 1800's to the american indians, were trade items usually quite useless, but better than stone in durability if not in sharpness. it is amazing what you can do with out a knife, and even more amazing how much more you can do with one.
 
"steel knives sold around 1800's to the american indians, were trade items usually quite useless, but better than stone in durability if not in sharpness."

I have seen many example of trade knives in many different states and disagree with the useless statement. True they where trade goods but from what I can tell they are the same trade goods used by the fur traders themselves. It is a good bet that a metal blade has many advantages over stone tools. These may require that they be resharpen more often but this only takes a moment.

Jim
 
I have seen many knives made from a pair of shears with two large blades that shear against one another.

The shears were cut in half, and the piece holding the shear to the spring was used as the tang, inserted in a piece of bone.

I know of a man that has these types of knives made today, and they feel pretty good in my hands. I believe they are pricey for that type of knife, however. But keep in mind I would have it on my belt, and not in the safe.

One made like this would be as good as the steel and heat treating.
 
I've been wasting vast amounts of time recently, reading "FIREARMS, TRAPS, & TOOLS of the MOUNTAIN MEN" by Carl P. Russell.

From this book, it looks like Indians used:

-Clasp Knives (which is to say "pocket knives") from France and England, of about 3" or 4" lengths.

-Dag knives, looking like short, fat, round tipped Sykes-Fairbairn double-edged daggers, which they dangled from their wrists with a thong.

-Butcher/"Scalper" knives, from Europe, many of whom look remarkably like modern 10" or 12" French Chef knives (cause that's what some of them were!)
A revealing passage from the book, pg 181 follows:
"From the earliest days of the U.S. Indian Trade Office (late 18th cent. to the final period of the American Fur Company, 1840's, the Orders Outward, invoices, and other business records of the fur traders are replete with references to "scalping knives." The nonchalance with which the term was tossed around might lead one to believe that it meant something fairly specific. Actually, in the trade, any cheap butcher knife might be a "scalper." This had been as true in the early colonial trade as it was in the days of the mountain man..."

And when you read about mountain men/buffalo hunters in this book, you discover that they may have carried several duplicate knives, because of attrition.

-Tomahawks, again, imports from Europe and the Eastern US

-Axes, lets just say they brought along axes, instead of batonning their butcher knives thru the log! :footinmou Axes prooved so useful and needful that there are many tales of Indian stealing axes from white travelors.

Whew, and that doesn't even scratch the surface.
 
Erasmus is right on target--that book has been one of my staples for almost thirty years.

Here's the cool part: an authentic knife like the plains or mountain peoples might carry is real cheap--check out any Russell Green River knife. Made in the USA, good ol' carbon steel.

Worn and used by native peoples, fur trappers, buffalo hunters, and re-enactors.
 
Thanks for the kind word, Mr. L. Jaguar. :cool:

To see some pictures of these, go to:
www.trackofthewolf.com

Scroll down the screen, and on the left hand side, click on "cutlery" to see the various trade knives and trade axes.

Be sure to look up the trade muskets and trade rifles too. It looks like this cool company makes beautiful copies of period stuff. I really like my forged tomahawk. It lives in my hunting pack, with a cardboard sleeve over the edge).

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Anyone know of a source for American, Colonial Era "clasp knives?" Can't find them on the net anywhere! (I don't want Chinese or Pakistan mfg.)
 
well ya cant forget, that after the europeans came all the pots and pans that broke and were throw away, were picked up by indians. they used the copper brass, or bronze cook ware for everything.
MOCCASINMAN, when i said they had brass bladed knives, i meant that they got them through trade. they had already expierienced copper, so i thinked the opted for the nice golden blade over a half rusty piece of black steel.
 
Living in "Copper Country" thats what we call this area of upper michigan,there is a lot of native float copper close to the ground surface.A good personel friend of mine makes a pretty good living hunting this native copper.Along with the raw copper and I might add silver too,he finds alot of artifacts.He has quite a few copper blades of many different shapes and sizes.He also has some very crude iron forged tools and blades.If you are interested I can put you in touch with him.He also has some amazing copper silver mix nuggets that he calls "halfbreeds" that are truly awesome!
 
I picked these up at a yard sale for a quarter a piece.

074552.jpg
 
Erasmus said:
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Anyone know of a source for American, Colonial Era "clasp knives?" Can't find them on the net anywhere! (I don't want Chinese or Pakistan mfg.)
Click to expand...
I think George Tichbourne's work is representative of the old style.

http://www.tichbourneknives.com/new.htm at the bottom of the page.

George has created reproductions of a few types of French Clasp Knives and one French Belt Knife. George has been studying authentic 17th & 18th French Century clasp knife blades from a personal collection found in and around Fort Michilimackinac and has worked closely with this expert to produce what you see below.

The blade and handle look and feel like what a French "Coureur des bois", Soldier, Voyageurs, Habitants or native Indians would have used back in the 1600 and 1700's in North America.
Click to expand...
 
You may also want to look for Lar Hothem's Indian Trade Relics (2003 - ISBN 1-57432-303-2). Hundreds of full color pictures including guns, knives, hawks, and axes; also, beads and other associated items. Some of the stuff are 20th century fantasy projects, but there are also many good items shown. It is a nice compendium of the kind of stuff you will probably come across when you are looking for artifacts of North America's indigenous peoples.

Amazon Link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/157...730-9157704?_encoding=UTF8&p=S001#reader-link

n2s
 
Another source would be the inside back cover of any issue of Charlie Richie's excellent magazine, "Backwoodsman." Charlie himself wanders the west, picking up old butcher knives, etc., and re-selling them in his publication. All guaranteed to be old, funky, and very cool.
 
North River Custom Knives has this. Thought it could add to the thread. I dont now how historically accurate it is, but it is a beautiful knife



Custom-Knife - Magua Knife - The Last of the Mohicans

Blade Steel: 1095 high carbon steel, tempered to a Rockwell 59-60

Construction: Partial tang.

Dimensions: Blade 7 1/8" - Handle 5 1/8" - Cutting edge 6" - Overall 12 1/4" - Width 1" - Thickness 1/8"

Handle/Grip: Hard maple secured with two solid brass pins. (under rawhide wrap)

Sheath: Veg tan leather with welt.

Finish: Aged finish. Period correct.

Special: Hand carved bear head. Rawhide wrap. Cord ferrule

This knife is stamped with my makers mark “NR” and comes with a certificate of authenticity.

This is a period style custom-knife that will take and keep a great edge. Great for re-enactors or collectors who crave tradition. Handmade and hand-forged in the traditions of long ago. Very sharp. Bear head carving by artist Neil Fehr.
 
Interesting thread:thumbup: I have one of the old Cold Steel Green River knives and it's a great knife (after sanding the handle a bit), especially in the kitchen. I would think game/food processing would've been a top function of knives carried by pioneers and indians. Quite different from knife use today and explaining why the knives of yore where a lot like large kitchen knives. At least it makes sense to me. Take care.
 
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