American made production knives?

Sal Glesser said:
I do not agree than anyone can make quality production pieces. I have been to many factories all over the world. I see differences in skill level, knowledge level, passion level, determination level, ego level and a host of other factors that make one company able to produce better quality, (based on my definitions of quality) than another.
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Sal,
of course there are differences in real world.

But spend lot of money on training, high quality equipment, employee motivation (enviroment, wages, performance bonus etc.), quality raw materials etc. etc. (you probably know better than me) and you can make product everyone else will be envy of.
It is unrealistic because the price always come into conclusion. Therefore it is always quality AND price (IMHO).

You can have very precise (expensive :)) CNC machine just and only to produce you say screws of extremly high quality, but it is going to be expensive. You can have each screw inspected under microscope by 20 different people. You can pay the man who tightens the screws $100K a year with 2 hours shift - to motivate him :). Anything, if you have enough money :thumbup: (that's where it gets spoiled :D)
 
Buck has things being made in China now.:(

Sal, I originally intended to keep it at USA production level only, but that line is much blurrier than one would originally think. hence the necessary addition of Chris Reeve and Randall King. Thank you.

which companies listed thus far have I been mistaken on?
 
I believe that Blade Tech has a line of imported pieces.

I am less sure, but believe that Knives of Alaska had imports.

The line becomes blurry if you add parts. Are the screws that you buy from XYZ company made in the US? Is the steel used in the spring made in the US?

Hi Huugh,

I guess if you "spend enough", you are correct. So the difference in quality becomes the "choice"? Who "Chooses" to "spend enough"?

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
I guess if you "spend enough", you are correct. So the difference in quality becomes the "choice"? Who "Chooses" to "spend enough"?

sal
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Hi,
Well, you probably hit the nail on the head.
Sometimes enviroment can help you (accessability of technologies, education level in the country etc.) a bit, but higher quality is always bought off by the higher price.

If you increase quality by 1% and it costs you additional 500% what did you get? Higher quality product. But is it a better product?

And that's the important choice: if you want better product or higher quality product. That's why I tend to give more importance to quality/price ratio.

Unless I become Brunei sultan :) I have limited funds so if I'm to determine what is better (for me) price always come to consideration.

(Actually it's what drives the market economy - the fact one has limited resources and unlimited needs :), isn't it?)
 
One thing to consider is that there is a point that the lowest price becomes irrelevant, IF the product is unusable. The Chinese knife that I purchased costed $15. It was $15 completely wasted, because it was an inoperable, poorly made, useless tool. $8 more added to that price purchased a Camillus camp knife, and it would also buy a Case sodbuster. Just for comparisons sake, it would also buy TWO Opinels, which are infinitely more usable than any broken poorly fitted soft steel product from China.

I search through flea markets all of the time looking for knife bargains. There are literally dozens of tables covered by bucketfulls of $5 to $10 Chinese knives. They are simply HORRIBLE quality. I paid the five bucks one day just to show one of the junk dealers how badly they are actually built. I handed him the money, he handed me the knife, I opened it up, grabbed it with both hands, and twisted blade out of the frame, breaking it into two pieces with my bare ungloved hands. No worry about getting cut, no edges on most of the things. They are pot metal and plastic with leaded steel blades that are softer than even the throwaway kitchen knives. A quality knife made in Europe, USA, or Japan costs little more than the worthless trash being imported in bulk from Chinese factories. Taiwan is a different story, with build quality being more like Japanese product, some actually excellent quality. The worst knives I've ever seen came from Pakistan though, I knew a guy who bought a fixed blade hunting knife from there. He asked me what I thought about it, I grabbed it, twisted the blade off the handle, breaking it in two pieces, he gasped, I reached into my pocket and handed him a Schrade I had gotten at Walmart for only a few cents more than his Pakistan knife, and gave it to him. Friends don't let friends who know no better hurt themselves with putrid junk. :barf:
 
Does Leatherman offer imports?

I'm a big proponent of buying the best value for your money, regardless of country of origin. I generally shed no tears for businesses that fail. Supporting inefficient enterprises for sentimental(patriotic) reasons is like the worst aspects of a welfare program. Companies or industries that can't compete need to be allowed to fail.
 
Big money companies are now taking the know how and equipment to China to make decent stuff just as they did with Taiwan. Why? Because labor is a few cents an hour.
 
"Buy American" is as un-American as buying cheap crap that falls apart.

The American thing to do is demand the very best for your money, regardless of where it comes from. This means refusing to buy crappy Chinese knockoffs because they're junk and you want to hear the Emerson blade bang into place like a pump-action shotgun, not because you want to give Emerson a handout for being located here.

By the same token, I hate Toyotas. Not Toyota (the company), but Toyotas...the Corollas and Camrys that are bloated POSes. But the day they start making rear-drive, manual-shift, lightweight cars that can turn, break, and have engines that perform like a domestic small-block or Italian V12, I'll buy one.

"Thank God this thing works because I'm buying American either way" is a terrible attitude.
"This American _____ is the best and that's why I'm buying it, but hand me a better version and you'll have earned my money" is how a true patriot thinks (it's also the very thing that keeps so many American firms on their toes and at the top of their game, and what will break the back of parasites like the UAW).

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=576
 
Good you have the money bobby t to buy something in a car most people don't need or want to pay the extra dollars for. When I was 16 I may have driven a car like you say you drive, but now that I'm 19 and paying for my own (cars, tickets, tires, gas,parts) I don't feel nearly so inclined to be abusive. Toyota may be POS in your opinion but they are POS that seem to last and give very few problems while doing so. (lol they "break" I bet the way you drive)
 
Case, Providence Knife Company (i'm pretty sure their still in business), Ranger (makes cheap traditional knives in Rhode Island). I'm pretty sure Leatherman products are still made here, but they use some foreign components now IIRC. The Becker Knife and Tool line was US made as are most (if not all Camillus). Most of Ontarios production is American, but they have a decent quality line of imported knives that are imported. I recently ordered one of those- should be here next week.
 
bobby.t said:
"Buy American" is as un-American as buying cheap crap that falls apart.

The American thing to do is demand the very best for your money, regardless of where it comes from. This means refusing to buy crappy Chinese knockoffs because they're junk and you want to hear the Emerson blade bang into place like a pump-action shotgun, not because you want to give Emerson a handout for being located here.

By the same token, I hate Toyotas. Not Toyota (the company), but Toyotas...the Corollas and Camrys that are bloated POSes. But the day they start making rear-drive, manual-shift, lightweight cars that can turn, break, and have engines that perform like a domestic small-block or Italian V12, I'll buy one.

"Thank God this thing works because I'm buying American either way" is a terrible attitude.
"This American _____ is the best and that's why I'm buying it, but hand me a better version and you'll have earned my money" is how a true patriot thinks (it's also the very thing that keeps so many American firms on their toes and at the top of their game, and what will break the back of parasites like the UAW).

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=576
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Several of the longest lasting vehicles that I have ever witnessed personally were Toyotas. My wifes family had one that cycled through half a dozen of them ownershipwise, before being involved in a wreck that totalled it. It had well over 250,000 miles on it, no engine or transmission rework at all. The man who installs the central heat and air ducting in the new houses that we build drives two Toyota pickups, one converted to a flatbed to haul large sheet metal parts in. The pickup is a 1978 model, and has over 300,000 miles on it. The flatbed conversion is in the early 1980's range, and has over 200,000 miles on it. A coworker who I've worked with for over twenty years had a Toyota pickup that he bought used, and I know for a fact that he drove it 17 years, putting over 200,000 miles on it, and it would have gone even more miles, as it was having no mechanical troubles, BUT he had a heater hose burst on the interstate, and overheated the enging to the point that it was ruined.

I don't own any Toyotas and never have so far, but if the opportunity arose and I needed a new car, I would consider one along with a few other makers cars.

That being said, my current car is a Ford Mustang, and it is the best car that I've ever owned. Been driving it since 1999, the only failure has been one alternator. Other than normal wear parts, like spark plugs, brake shoes, batteries, and tires, it is untouched since buying it new. Wheel alignment never touched, 22 miles per gallon average, 132,000 miles, with only normal oil changes and transmission maintainence. Still on the original radiator and heater hoses with no deterioration visible, and the accessory drive belt is the original also. It's a strong simple easy to service car, front engine rear wheel drive pushrod V-6, and I will be very sad when it wears out one of these days and has to be replaced with some God awful complex front wheel drive overhead cam monstrosity that costs a bazillion dollars to maintain.
 
Actually, you touch on a point. Old Toyotas had excellent value for the dollar because the component failure rate was so low. They were engineered like VW's. Now the price is up because the US factory pays US wage rates and the market will bear the extra for reliability - folks just don't work on their own cars anymore. It's a technological desert.

Now the US made cars are approaching the same quality build but suffering from a past reputation. I expect some Chinese knives to have the same problem soon - high quality build, low price, excellent value, bad reputation regardless.

It's a poor long term strategy to sacrifice quality for sales if it gives the typically unlearned consumer that impression. The smart decision is to separate the offerings enough so they know it was their choice.
 
Manufacturers really can't afford to skimp on quality when there is sufficient competition. For higher end cutlery, just look at what has happened to the opinion of a firm like Gerber. They can move into another market, still selling cheaper items for those looking for it, but anything they sell in the $100+ range is largely ignored by enthusiasts because of the rest of their line. There's too many other brands out there without the stigma.
 
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