An Educated BOB

One thing to keep in mind, and I feel like you've been kind of going in that direction, is that when the call comes to evacuate, you have seconds. If its at night, you have seconds in which you are not yet awake. What's going to get grabbed first? the purse. a second bag that is going to be stuffed under the bed, or in the back of a closet is going to be overlooked.
Dorms have false alarms all the time, and the real struggle is not to get complaisant. I lived in industrial camps, think college dorms that are supposed to be dry, (of course they are not) and are complete fire traps. the third time the smoke alarms went off at 0100 in a week, almost no one left the building to the muster point. We all caught hell for it, but the reality is, earplugs and sleep over-ride self preservation very quickly.

Its worth owning all the good stuff for when you are planning on leaving, but I think its more important to get used to carrying what you need to get by for a couple days. besides, never know when an adventure is going to happen!
 
gadgetgeek said:
One thing to keep in mind, and I feel like you've been kind of going in that direction, is that when the call comes to evacuate, you have seconds. If its at night, you have seconds in which you are not yet awake. What's going to get grabbed first? the purse. a second bag that is going to be stuffed under the bed, or in the back of a closet is going to be overlooked.
Dorms have false alarms all the time, and the real struggle is not to get complaisant. I lived in industrial camps, think college dorms that are supposed to be dry, (of course they are not) and are complete fire traps. the third time the smoke alarms went off at 0100 in a week, almost no one left the building to the muster point. We all caught hell for it, but the reality is, earplugs and sleep over-ride self preservation very quickly.

Its worth owning all the good stuff for when you are planning on leaving, but I think its more important to get used to carrying what you need to get by for a couple days. besides, never know when an adventure is going to happen!
Click to expand...

Neither of the girls are big on purses. Oh, sometimes, when wearing dresses. But pants with cargo pockets are more their speed.

Half asleep, heading for the door, grabbing the book bag, is probably habitual in college. That’s one reason it’s a book bag based kit.
 
Like I said, you are going in the right direction, I made the comment for the benefit of searchers and lurkers. its a good thing to have the kit in a bag that is in use and going to be thought about, which is what you've done. And your thoughts on weight are good as well, since books are heavy, and anything unneeded will get left behind.
I got the advice from a buddy who experienced a housefire. The fire started in the home under construction next door, so by the time his alarm went off, his home was well engulfed. Its just a common thing that people feel like they will have time, when the truth is, you end up outside in whatever you were sleeping in, and wherever you could grab that was between the bed and the door. If thats the book bag, that's great, if its just pants, well, at least you have something.
 
Infrastructure.

It's been interesting to see this thread resurface.


It still seems to me that the list(s) are co-mingled in terms what they would be used for. A key distinction in my mind is whether or not there is a functioning infrastructure.

For EDC and general civil emergencies, things like house fires or storm events, by and large, there is still a functioning infrastructure. Run out of a burning dorm and you run into a world in which there is still an infrastructure. Power goes out due to an ice storm, the infrastructure is damaged but not gone and is in the process of being returned to normal.

For backcountry travel, there is no infrastructure, so you have to carry it and the load gets bigger and more complex.

For me, this discussion collides and becomes hard to follow as soon as these get combined into a single 5lb BOB kit. I just can't conceive of anybody lugging 5 lbs of kit in their school book bag that is capable of no infrastructure/backcountry survival. Conversely, I can't imagine somebody heading off XC skiing or doing trail work with full digital document backups.

Seems to me this discussion could be advanced better if the kit breaks into at least 2: EDC (assumes functioning infrastructure, always in the bookbag, much lighter) and Backcountry (assumes no infrastructure, heavier, carried only if needed).

The tricky bit in terms of planning is recognizing situations that are "front-country" in their orientation but could by some bad turn of luck turn into a backcountry scenario. This is the proverbial "3 hour tour". A few years ago, there was that kid in Maine who skied off the backside of a mountain and was lost for (what?) 3 days. My cousin had a flashlight failure helping a buddy pull a moose out of the woods in VT this October, got benighted and spent the night in the woods. A very rural back road drive could become a backcountry situation due to car or road failure or a bad storm.

In this light, I think there is a lot of overlap between a car kit and a backcountry ready kit. Car kits can be quite big. But I see huge virtue of having a very lean and mean backcountry kit, so that it can taken on those shoulder outings that are planned to be front country but could be backcountry when things go sideways.

Another way of saying this is, the thread taken in total, seems to be a list of things one should have to be prepared for "all of the above". In my mind and in my own organization, I separate this stuff into 3 (4) sets:
+EDC
+Backcountry essentials
+Car
+Home
 
I'd like to bring up some questions about what you said for the emergency repair/sewing kit. I'm in the market for one of these(repair kits) and the Chouinard/Patagonia kit is the first pre-made kit I have seen with the collet chuck/pin vice. I saw the DIY example you posted but don't think that is feasible in my current living situation. Anybody care to extol the virtues of this particular piece of gear? in the OP Raymond you seem to suggest this is an essential component. Is there anything that you have added to your repair kit that is not included in the one from patagonia?

Thanks,
Dan
 
pinnah said:
Infrastructure.

It's been interesting to see this thread resurface.


It still seems to me that the list(s) are co-mingled in terms what they would be used for. A key distinction in my mind is whether or not there is a functioning infrastructure.

For EDC and general civil emergencies, things like house fires or storm events, by and large, there is still a functioning infrastructure. Run out of a burning dorm and you run into a world in which there is still an infrastructure. Power goes out due to an ice storm, the infrastructure is damaged but not gone and is in the process of being returned to normal.

For backcountry travel, there is no infrastructure, so you have to carry it and the load gets bigger and more complex.

For me, this discussion collides and becomes hard to follow as soon as these get combined into a single 5lb BOB kit. I just can't conceive of anybody lugging 5 lbs of kit in their school book bag that is capable of no infrastructure/backcountry survival. Conversely, I can't imagine somebody heading off XC skiing or doing trail work with full digital document backups.

Seems to me this discussion could be advanced better if the kit breaks into at least 2: EDC (assumes functioning infrastructure, always in the bookbag, much lighter) and Backcountry (assumes no infrastructure, heavier, carried only if needed).

The tricky bit in terms of planning is recognizing situations that are "front-country" in their orientation but could by some bad turn of luck turn into a backcountry scenario. This is the proverbial "3 hour tour". A few years ago, there was that kid in Maine who skied off the backside of a mountain and was lost for (what?) 3 days. My cousin had a flashlight failure helping a buddy pull a moose out of the woods in VT this October, got benighted and spent the night in the woods. A very rural back road drive could become a backcountry situation due to car or road failure or a bad storm.

In this light, I think there is a lot of overlap between a car kit and a backcountry ready kit. Car kits can be quite big. But I see huge virtue of having a very lean and mean backcountry kit, so that it can taken on those shoulder outings that are planned to be front country but could be backcountry when things go sideways.

Another way of saying this is, the thread taken in total, seems to be a list of things one should have to be prepared for "all of the above". In my mind and in my own organization, I separate this stuff into 3 (4) sets:
+EDC
+Backcountry essentials
+Car
+Home
Click to expand...

You’re making good points. I’m not sure if you were saying something different earlier; or if I understood less well.

I’m thinking of a two stage kit.

One for local use.

One for traveling or for rough country trips.

I’m thinking about not least because that is how the girls actually used theirs.
.
I’ll let the idea steep.

The trick about a car kit is that it needs a car. Lisa did without, all through school. Rebecca is still in college and only recently got one
 
DanDanthedirtyoldman said:
I'd like to bring up some questions about what you said for the emergency repair/sewing kit. I'm in the market for one of these(repair kits) and the Chouinard/Patagonia kit is the first pre-made kit I have seen with the collet chuck/pin vice. I saw the DIY example you posted but don't think that is feasible in my current living situation. Anybody care to extol the virtues of this particular piece of gear? in the OP Raymond you seem to suggest this is an essential component. Is there anything that you have added to your repair kit that is not included in the one from patagonia?

Thanks,
Dan
Click to expand...

Dan,

Here is a nice tutorial on using the Chouinard/Patagonia awl, or awls in general.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+To+Sew+With+An+Awl/19490

I personally don't carry one. Instead, I carry a Leatherman Squirt like this...
Outdoor Carry by Pinnah, on Flickr

I carry this along with Gutterman brand heavy duty polyester thread. Any brand will do so long as it is heavy duty and not cotton or cotton coated. I also carry 2 heavy duty needles and 1 curved upholstery needle. Singer often has these in a kit at most drug/grocery stores. The upholstery needle is curved and very handy for making repairs when you can't pass a needle or awl straight through something, like a hip belt. The trick is to use the pliers to hold and drive the needle through.

For me, I find the small pliers to be "good weight" but the awl to be "bad weight", since the pliers can be used to do the work of the awl.

This means I sew using a running stitch and not a locking sewing machine/awl type stitch. That's mostly aesthetic.
 
I like the idea of pliers in place of an awl, but I also have one on my SAK, so I don't need one. I've been debating taking my Wave out of my bag and just going with my SAK and a pair of pliers. I think their combined weight is around 9 oz compared to the 12 oz of the Wave.
 
Fuori, the idea of multi-tools is well known with cyclists. Weight weenies (aka gram counters) know that individual tools often add up to a lighter and better functioning combination. Counter intuitive. The very tiny needle nose vice grips are worth a look and a good way to augment your SAK.
 
DanDanthedirtyoldman said:
I'd like to bring up some questions about what you said for the emergency repair/sewing kit. I'm in the market for one of these(repair kits) and the Chouinard/Patagonia kit is the first pre-made kit I have seen with the collet chuck/pin vice. I saw the DIY example you posted but don't think that is feasible in my current living situation. Anybody care to extol the virtues of this particular piece of gear? in the OP Raymond you seem to suggest this is an essential component. Is there anything that you have added to your repair kit that is not included in the one from patagonia?

Thanks,
Dan
Click to expand...

The pin vice is a miniature version of larger sewing awls. Which are actually easier to use. I don’t think sewing awls are essential. I think they are convenient.

If you don’t want to bother, put two needles on one thread and use the saddle stitch. That will work just as well.

I add a few # 18 Heavy Duty needles. These have larger eyes which are easier to thread. (I trick I learned from Doug Ritter.) I include some heavy thread. I include a curved upholstery needle. That’s for anything I can only get at from one side. I add buttons to match—in size, color is secondary—any buttons on the clothes I wear.

Safety pins of various sizes are a help. They don’t fit in the kit, but a few big blanket pins come in handy.
 
Raymond1000 said:
You’re making good points. I’m not sure if you were saying something different earlier; or if I understood less well.

I’m thinking of a two stage kit.

One for local use.

One for traveling or for rough country trips.

I’m thinking about not least because that is how the girls actually used theirs.
.
I’ll let the idea steep.

The trick about a car kit is that it needs a car. Lisa did without, all through school. Rebecca is still in college and only recently got one
Click to expand...


Raymond, I often do a horrible job explaining myself.

I actually 2 different multi-stage systems: one for functioning infrastructure (day to day life), the other for no infrastructure (backcountry/remote).

There is significant overlap. I'm no longer a student so this is a luxury but it simplifies my life. Minimal repacking. Stuff is in prepacked modules and if I have the modules, I have my stuff.

Here is my EDC system.
Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr

The system is built on 3 packs, which nest together like Russian dolls.

The smallest module is the black organizer on the left. I use it something like a hand carried super-wallet. My Zippo, credit card holder and DMT sharpening stone ride in this pouch. Not seen is a cut & scrape first aid kit, a small bit of hand sanitizer, a pen and enough room to carry my iPod. I'll keep this in the car cockpit with me when commuting or I'll hand carry it some places like doctors offices and such. It's sort of like my miniature information center. When I'm in my office, I put it next to my work station.

The second bag is a lighweight version of the Mountainsmith Tour. It functions as either a shoulder bag or very capable fanny pack. The black pouch spends 80% of its time here. Also carried here is my Leatherman Blast, headlamp, notepaad and a small case with spare glasses and batteries. It has enough room to carry a light jacket, water bottle and sunglasses. If I'm not in the woods, this bag is usually in the room with me. I carry it almost everywhere. This would be my "grab this first" bag in case of a fire.

The final bag is a 3.0L day pack that I use to haul the laptop around. The fanny pack gets dropped into this on Monday morning and sometimes stays there till Friday, depending on what I'm doing at night. The pack also carries lunch, electronic junk and other office related stuff.


Here is my woods system.
Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr

My "10 Essentials" are spread across the blue and black organizer pouches. The blue pouch is my "trail stuff" pouch - things I need easy access to throughout the day, like the Squirt, a necklace light, toilette paper and toiletries. In camp, this pouch is always at hand.

The black pouch is all emergency gear I hope to never open. Repair kit, first aid, mylar bivy, spare powerbars... stuff like that.

If I'm in the woods, these 2 pouches are with me. I keep them stored in the black stuffable pack to the right. That pack also has a wool hat (I knit), wool gloves and a puff vest, and occasionally a fixed blade (I always have a pocket knife). If I'm on a day hike, I just grab the day pack and I'm set. I keep this pack in the back of my car, not my house. If I'm on an overnight trip the contents of the pack just get transferred to the larger pack. No thinking. The essentials are covered.

This also serves as the core of my car kit. I'll move the Emberlit and shovel to the car soon, as winter approaches.
 
Addendum: I tried to add this correction to the text itself. Bladeforums won’t let me. So I’m posting it here:

I’ve been recommending the Ronson JetLite for personal carry. The selling point was that the JetLite is reliable and more wind resistant than the Bic. Nice looking lighter as well. You can carry it in your tactical tuxedo without a blush.

I bought a batch of four last December. Each of them has failed me. They don’t hold gas. Even with a fresh filled tank, the five-times refined butane doesn’t burn. Sometimes I could fiddle and get things going. Sometimes not. None of them work now.

I checked user reviews of the Ronson JetLite. Turns out my problems are not rare. Perhaps I have enjoyed a run of good luck with the brand.

I hope Ronson fixes things. I hope so, but I Trust Not in Corporations.

Carry a Bic.
 
a very good paper/article but I am left wondering if they would actually take the time to read all of it........

That's not a slam on the paper...I just know how my own daughters are [2 already in college and one soon-to-go] and knowing how they are [the attention span of a newborn kitten]...I wonder if they will just look at it and say, "oh hell no...I don't have time right now"......and throw it to the way-side...
 
druid189 said:
a very good paper/article but I am left wondering if they would actually take the time to read all of it........

That's not a slam on the paper...I just know how my own daughters are [2 already in college and one soon-to-go] and knowing how they are [the attention span of a newborn kitten]...I wonder if they will just look at it and say, "oh hell no...I don't have time right now"......and throw it to the way-side...
Click to expand...

That does happen, more often than not. Say I give five copies out. Four toss the thing.

One reads it, asks a few questions. Maybe even learns to make a fire and tie a knot.

I don’t think I’ve had four failures. I think I’ve had one success.
 
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