An interesting video regarding waterstones.

[Bugout Bill]

[video=youtube;EAFcLTIkb2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAFcLTIkb2M[/video]

Yeah, it's Cliff Stamp, but some of the information is kind of interesting.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Not the best sound as I'm on the shop floor right now, but picked up on a few items right off the bat.
Murray Carter does indeed recommend using your grinding action with the tool to maintain a reasonably flat stone, but he also encourages one to use the entire stone surface as you go, not to wait till you see inconsistencies. IMHO its a bad idea to only work one spot on your abrasive surface no matter what its composition - swarf is the enemy of clean grinding. Even if one decides to flatten their waterstone regularly it shouldn't require any serious effort, time, or consideration.

 

[HwangJino]

I keep sand paper and/or flattening stone (nagura) always handy.

Before and after just a quick scrub and stones are always flat.

Sometimes I go overboard and will stick on glass pane to see if left bottom and right top corner is higher than rest of stone, these areas are hardest to use in my experience.

 

[Bugout Bill]

Not the best sound as I'm on the shop floor right now, but picked up on a few items right off the bat.
Murray Carter does indeed recommend using your grinding action with the tool to maintain a reasonably flat stone, but he also encourages one to use the entire stone surface as you go, not to wait till you see inconsistencies. IMHO its a bad idea to only work one spot on your abrasive surface no matter what its composition - swarf is the enemy of clean grinding. Even if one decides to flatten their waterstone regularly it shouldn't require any serious effort, time, or consideration.

Murray Carter seems to advocate a "quick and dirty" method for sharpening. Nothing wrong with that, but he loses me when he starts arguing that his method is the only method, or that waterstones are the end all be all of sharpening.

Realistically, how much abrasive is one really losing when they lap the stone?

 

[Ben Dover]

Not the best sound as I'm on the shop floor right now, but picked up on a few items right off the bat.
Murray Carter does indeed recommend using your grinding action with the tool to maintain a reasonably flat stone, but he also encourages one to use the entire stone surface as you go, not to wait till you see inconsistencies. IMHO its a bad idea to only work one spot on your abrasive surface no matter what its composition - swarf is the enemy of clean grinding. Even if one decides to flatten their waterstone regularly it shouldn't require any serious effort, time, or consideration.

Absolutely. After sharpening half a dozen knives, I'll flatten my Edge-Pro waterstones, usually 5 or 6 of them in less than 15 minutes.

 

[somber]

Murray Carter seems to advocate a "quick and dirty" method for sharpening. Nothing wrong with that, but he loses me when he starts arguing that his method is the only method, or that waterstones are the end all be all of sharpening.

Realistically, how much abrasive is one really losing when they lap the stone?

Here's what Murray has been saying about flattening a waterstone from Blade Sharpening Fundamentals, released January 2012:

"I used to be a stickler for always looking at my stone and seeing where the high spots on the stone are, after use, and trying only to use the high spots on the stone. Now, that is a great, romantic way to try and use your stone up as efficiently as possible without wasting up any of the abrasives, but now I'm a little more mellow in how I view the maintenance of the stone. So, now I'm now longer opposed to having a second, worn out stone to grind the surface of your stone, it does two things, it makes the stone easier and more pleasure to use... I actually take pleasure in sculpting and shaping the stone back to a nice flat shape again... "

"It's your stone, you can maintain it how you would like."

Timestamp: 35minutes 55seconds

You need to update your information about Murray Carter, it appears to be two years out of date.

 

[Bugout Bill]

Here's what Murray has been saying about flattening a waterstone from Blade Sharpening Fundamentals, released January 2012:

"I used to be a stickler for always looking at my stone and seeing where the high spots on the stone are after use, and trying only to use the high spots on the stone. Now that it s a great romantic way to try and use your stone up as efficiently as possible without using up any of the abrasives but now I'm a little more mellow in how I view the maintenance of the stone. So now I'm not opposed to having a second or worn out stone to grind the surface of your stone... I actually take pleasure in sculpting and shaping the stone back to a nice flat shape again. "

Timestamp: 35minutes 05seconds

You need to update your information about Murray Carter, it appears to be two years out of date.

Very interesting, I did not know about this. Thank you.

 

[HwangJino]

I know some will disagree with me, but I have seen old stones (that old head chef used) that was very flat but didn't use any flattening stones, he said just to flatten stone with knife and it will always be flat..

I have not perfected that technique but his knives were scary.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Murray Carter seems to advocate a "quick and dirty" method for sharpening. Nothing wrong with that, but he loses me when he starts arguing that his method is the only method, or that waterstones are the end all be all of sharpening.

Realistically, how much abrasive is one really losing when they lap the stone?

I'm not sure about "quick and dirty" so much as simple and effective. He doesn't claim to have the market cornered, but describes his method as giving a good return on a modest investment. Also expressed his respect for those that do opt for a more involved process and progression, but in his environment that's just not practical or necessary.

Is no fan of most guided systems, or methods that only work the cutting edge - as one might expect from someone who advocates thinning the blade geometry as often as is practical.

From that standpoint, waterstones have a lot to offer. A very comprehensive solution to dealing with swarf, presenting different sized abrasives to a steel surface with a high degree of surface uniformity and consistent grinding effectiveness. Honestly I like to think of my Washboard as something of a 'ghetto' waterstone - is the type of effect I was trying to replicate by more robust means with a higher margin of error for the user. Instead of water, I use an eraser...

On my Norton waterstones, prior to learning to use the entire stone surface, they had to be lapped about every other use, at least the 1k and 220 did, the 4k a little less - was probably cutting their lifespan in half or even worse. As I've advocated many times, it pays not only in increased lifespan of waterstones, but in improved grinding quality from just about any media when you use the entire surface. If its a slow wearing but still dishable stone like a silicon carbide, or some of the denser waterstones, you might extend out your need to lap the stones to where you can't readily recall the last time - is something you do so infrequently. This is worth learning IMHO.

Martin

 

[Bugout Bill]

I know some will disagree with me, but I have seen old stones (that old head chef used) that was very flat but didn't use any flattening stones, he said just to flatten stone with knife and it will always be flat..

I have not perfected that technique but his knives were scary.

I think that individual and HeavyHanded are essentially saying the same thing, that you should use the entire surface of the stone from the get go, rather than use only limited area before using the high points.