An intro and a question on Swiss Gear

[midnight flyer]

First of all, hello, all. While new to this forum, I am not new to camping/hiking/hunting etc. I have probably enjoyed this area of BF more than anywhere else.

I used to do a great deal of hiking and camping, but business and family pressures made that impossible for a while. Still, gone are the days of a week long hike sleeping under the stars. May again someday.

But I will take what I can get now. I am looking to start going out for a long weekend here and there, and don't know how much I will actually be able to get away. With that in mind, I do not want to replace all my old $$$$ equipment since it will be limited use, not stuff I will be dependent on for a week at a time.

I was at the big blue box club store yesterday and spotted a pack that was labeled "Swiss Gear" XL and had the logo and Wenger brand on it. It looked very well made, well appointed (not perfect, but what pack is...) and I liked the overall design. An internal frame, it seems to be reinforced well, sewn well, and made out of good materials. This isn't a toy or a school boy pack. With a dust/rain cover, and heavy duty bottom with access zipper and about 4200 ci, I was impressed. I adjusted it out to fit my 6'2" frame easily, and it felt good on.

So I am thinking, how bad can this be? Gone are my days of a few hundred for a North Face, Kelty, etc. Gone are my days of much more than two nights away. I need a pack just big enough to carry my sleeping bag, tent, water filter and water, some food and the other small necessities.

This isn't the exact pack, but it is a close match:

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=378831

Here's the kicker. The pack is seasonal, and if I don't get off my butt, they will be gone soon. And it's only $50. My last pack was almost 5X (I do mean that literally!) that amount. I wasn't concerned with the cost but more with quality then as I would be out for a few days at a time back then. I was completely obsessed with making sure I had NO equipment failure, and only went with name brand stuff.

But I have seen just as much big name premium equipment break down as I have mid level stuff. Don't get me wrong, junk it junk, but I am now at the point where I don't feel comfortable spending $200 on a pack by itself anymore.

Since I will be buying a new tent, new water filtering, maybe a new stove, and other things, I want to remember that realistically this may only be an overnight pack most of the time. I doubt it will do more than 20 miles a trip now, and that may be sporadic.

I also need enough money left to buy the rest of the kit I need to replace. Old compression bags have dry rotted, plastic emergency boxes are brittle, my old nalgene bottles don't seal well, my old MSR gas stove is clogged and I wouldn't trust a 25 year old pump water filter.

So... after that long winded explanation, does anyone have any practical experience with this pack or any of its cousins?

TIA -

Robert

 

[udtjim]

I have not, But welcome to the forum and I will look forward to your input. It has been a long winter and I am starting to shuffle through the gear in hopes that spring won't be to long in coming. We have had way to much snow and 20- 30 below zero. The only way to get off the road is with snow mobiles. and I am not into them.

 

[Ultraman]

Hi, and Welcome,
I've always liked the build and materials of these packs (I have mostly seen the smaller daypacks), and they seem to appear at some retail stores heavily discounted. I liked them enough to purchase a daypack.

Only thing I notice is that the extra padding or other features can make them heavy, maybe a concern for backpacking if you want to go lightweight. I am not sure how it is for the larger pack you are considering. It is probably sturdy, but it might be heavy on account of the robust materials they use.

 

[dextersp1]

That price makes me pause.
How much weight do you plan to put into it and how good are the shoulder straps and waist harness? The straps would be one indication to me as to the quality - too thin and not enough padding = not good.
Place for a water bladder?

Does it have a back panel that keeps the pack off your back?

 

[midnight flyer]

That price makes me pause.
How much weight do you plan to put into it and how good are the shoulder straps and waist harness? The straps would be one indication to me as to the quality - too thin and not enough padding = not good.
Place for a water bladder?

Does it have a back panel that keeps the pack off your back?

Personally, the price makes me pause as well. In fact, that's about my only real concern. I have seen big brand packs that aren't as well made as this for $150 that aren't any better.

Digressing, as a general contractor, this type of marketing thing isn't all that unusual. Breaking a bit more than even on the vendor side, they will allow someone like Home Depot, Lowe's, etc., to buy a certain tool or item just above their cost to get their product "out there". I once bought a nail gun, compressor and nails for the price of the gun alone. I asked the regional buyer for HD how that could be done. His reply? "You only have to order 10,000 sets to get that price. It's a one time shot." And it was.

Back to the pack. Excellent questions.

The suspension straps look first rate as do all the buckles and return friction keepers. They are all 1", and IIRC some 1 1/4" in the suspension webbing. The shoulder harness straps looked a bit thin to me, but I compared them to old faithful at home, and they are the same size.

It is bladder ready, and hydration ready. It has nylon net bags down both sides, accessible from the ouside without opening the pack. It has some hard points and some nylon loops sewn in to hang gear from in different places across the back.

I has a pretty sturdy (maybe two piece) ABS suspension piece in the pack which with the suspension system seems to hold the pack to a nice shape. With plenty of adjustment, I was able to zero in on the sweet spot just above my bony butt for the padding to sit. I think (not sure) there was a soft plastic plate in each side of the hip pads - may be just stiff new material though.

The waist strap had plenty of room, and a nice 2" strap and buckle on it.

The load will be light.

***************

Tent - 4#
Food - (max) 5#
Sleeping bag - 6#
Sleeping pad - 3#
Water pump - 2#
Water and bottles - 5#
MSR and fuel - 2#
Extra clothes (one pants, one shirt, etc.) - 3#
PVC rain poncho - 1#

Toilet articles (PVC mini shovel which is great for all kinds of things, TP, and bio-soap) - 2#

Goody box (tweezers, hard dental floss, mini compass, emergency whistle, first aid stuff, magnifying glass, waterproof match container, mini sharpening rod, space blanket, benedril, pack out garbage bag, etc.) - 3#

Maps, mini LED flashlights and a book - 2#

***************

My goal is under 40# for an overnighter (or two!) with everything in my pack. Pack not included.

As you can see this will not carry a heavy load. My old pack carried all of my old fashioned (read: heavy!) gear for years. Loaded for a week, it weighed in at a hefty 75 - 80#. With a water source though, I had no need for anything regardless of weather or conditions for days and days. Sadly, I am no longer in any kind of condition nor do I have the time to make a 50 - 75 mile hike.

Anyway, that's it. Any thoughts?

Robert

 

[dbltap45acp]

My two main packs are one for a day type pack, which is a Camelback Commander, and my 3 day and up pack is a Eberlestock G3 pack. I dont have any expierance with the pack you are talking about, but I would recommend Eberlestock packs. Solid packs that are worth thier weight in gold to me.

 

[DaleW]

I've seen cheap packs come apart in the middle of the trail, so check the zipper construction and strap attachments top and bottom.

A 4200ci pack is fairly large, implying that you would want to carry a load in excess of 30 pounds. The suspension system becomes very important with that kind of load. If you are going to check it out in the store, throw some canned goods or other items in there, get the load at 30 pounds or better, and walk around the store for a while. You can't really test the suspension until the pack is full.

I would guess that the suspension design is the weakest link in a $50 pack. It might make a good travel bag, where you are going to carry it a couple blocks at a time, which is very different than up a steel trail loaded with gear.

You get what you pay for!

 

[midnight flyer]

My two main packs are one for a day type pack, which is a Camelback Commander, and my 3 day and up pack is a Eberlestock G3 pack. I dont have any expierance with the pack you are talking about, but I would recommend Eberlestock packs. Solid packs that are worth thier weight in gold to me.

I agree that a great pack is worth a lot. But remember... I am no longer distance hiking so this won't be getting the crap beat out of it all the time, nor will it be in constant use.

I appreciate the recommendation of the Eberlestock packs, but as I tried to make clear, I am not ready to put down $400 to $500 for an occasional, light use pack. I am really looking for a light cargo carrier with a lot of pockets.

If I really get back into frequent, longer trips into more remote areas and wind up hauling more stuff, then maybe a $400 - $500 could be a great deal on a pack. And with a few hundred in the budget to spend on a pack, I am sure I could find a nice one!

But for a 3 -4 overnight trips a year, I am reluctant to let go of the cash. I am trying not to be stupid here and buy a cheap POS, but on the other hand I don't want to buy more than I need. I have way too many other holes for the cash to fall in these days.

Thanks for the input!

Robert

 

[midnight flyer]

I've seen cheap packs come apart in the middle of the trail, so check the zipper construction and strap attachments top and bottom.

I got a chuckle out of that. You made me think of something... many years ago I did the 'high altitude loop" in Yosemite. To this day, it is still my favorite hike. Along the trail, we saw broken equipment of all types and it really made us hesitant (with permission we went from the finish of the trail to the start, not from start to finish) about what we were getting into. There was all manner of equipment from every manufacturer that didn't make the grade.

A 4200ci pack is fairly large, implying that you would want to carry a load in excess of 30 pounds. The suspension system becomes very important with that kind of load.

Good eye. See above.

If you are going to check it out in the store, throw some canned goods or other items in there, get the load at 30 pounds or better, and walk around the store for a while. You can't really test the suspension until the pack is full.

That's an excellent suggestion and I don't know why I didn't think of it. Duh. I guess because I was in Sam's. When I bought my last pack I tried on many in REI and several camping shops. They all had padded weights you could load into the pack and carry it around in the store as long as you wanted to before purchase. I learned that 30 years ago... shows how out of the loop I am now.

What I wouldn't give for a decent hiking and camping store to be around here. We have all the big sporting goods chain stores here, but they are more style than substance, and for the most part not one soul knows a thing about hiking or rough camping. Heck, I'd even settle for an REI.

Years ago I could drive to a few little stores that were dedicated to just camping, and the guys that ran them had local knowledge of every trail and park worth going to within a few hundred miles. Paying a premium on their products was a pleasure for getting the benefit of their knowledge. But no one even knows where all those guys have gone. I guess along with having to combat internet pricing, camping and hiking just isn't that popular anymore.

Thanks for your comments.

Robert

 

[Runsalone]

.






***************

Tent - 4#
Food - (max) 5#
Sleeping bag - 6#
Sleeping pad - 3#
Water pump - 2#
Water and bottles - 5#
MSR and fuel - 2#
Extra clothes (one pants, one shirt, etc.) - 3#
PVC rain poncho - 1#

Toilet articles (PVC mini shovel which is great for all kinds of things, TP, and bio-soap) - 2#

Goody box (tweezers, hard dental floss, mini compass, emergency whistle, first aid stuff, magnifying glass, waterproof match container, mini sharpening rod, space blanket, benedril, pack out garbage bag, etc.) - 3#

Maps, mini LED flashlights and a book - 2#

***************

My goal is under 40# for an overnighter (or two!) with everything in my pack. Pack not included.

As you can see this will not carry a heavy load.
Anyway, that's it. Any thoughts?

Robert

Welcome to WSS!!!!

Ive done a little hikin, Is that a winter or three season load out? Im going to go back and carrfully read this whole thread and see if I can come up with a few good suggestions

 

[C Bryant]

welcome!

 

[Runsalone]

Couple things.

How much are you looking to spend. Is $50 your hard price point?

What kinds of trips do you think youll be doing. standard trails or lots of bushwacking?

Any intrest in lightening the load? Youll be suprised what you can do about weight without buying loads of extra expensive ultralight gear. And generally lighter packs cost less. I.E. my Granite Gear Nimbus ozone goes for about $150-200 and is arguably one of the most comfortable packs on the market at 30-40#s. Easily rivaling packs that cost 2-3 times more.

What kind of selection is available to you. Are there sporting goods stores in your area with other pack selection.


As far as the Swiss gear pack I second the suggestion to try it on and walk around the store. And LOAD IT UP! If they wouldnt let you I wouldnt buy it. Nothing can turn a challenging hike into a miserable death march like a pack that dosent fit properly, or rubs somewhere, or dosent balence out and distribute the load properly. Unfortunately this sometimes dosent become evident until 5-6 miles in. What the return policy?

Thats the other point of spending a little on your pack, you kinda do get what you pay for, and generally thats a good warranty as well.


I certainly see the point of not wanting to spend much, since youre only going to be able to get out every now and then. Im gonna research a little more and stick with this thread and see how it turns out!

P.S. If your under time contraints for the swiss gear pack, see how the return policy is. If You can just take it back if it doesnt work out, why not buy one while you have the chance ? Test it out carefully at your place with the gear you use (carefully no damage). Walk down the street for 5 miles or so. Then if it dosent feel right take it back. No harm no foul??

 

[Runsalone]

Lots here for around the $100 mark.http://www.moontrail.com/home.php?cat=316

 

[Runsalone]

Since I will be buying a new tent, new water filtering, maybe a new stove, and other things, I want to remember that realistically this may only be an overnight pack most of the time. I doubt it will do more than 20 miles a trip now, and that may be sporadic.

I also need enough money left to buy the rest of the kit I need to replace. Old compression bags have dry rotted, plastic emergency boxes are brittle, my old nalgene bottles don't seal well, my old MSR gas stove is clogged and I wouldn't trust a 25 year old pump water filter.

Robert

Maybe some money could be saved here (and weight!!!!) that could be applied to your pack? I can think of at least $50 bucks that can be saved out of that list, minimum, and some weight and some bulk.

Ill stop hijacking now

 

[xbxb]

Ya know---- I'm sure it will work fine. It's a lot better then what we used to have 20 to 30 yrs. ago and we went packing with that equipment all over creation. Give it a try for shorter stuff, and if you think it will work go for it.

 

[midnight flyer]

Maybe some money could be saved here (and weight!!!!) that could be applied to your pack? I can think of at least $50 bucks that can be saved out of that list, minimum, and some weight and some bulk.

Ill stop hijacking now

Hmm... saving the $50 would be interesting. I already have the tent, the sleeping bag, the sleeping pad, the MSR stove and fuel bottle, the extra clothes and the poncho.

The water pump is non negotiable with me since I HATE the taste of iodine water. And as I said above, we simply don't have an outlet here with qualified people selling hiking gear, so looking, trying and checking most things out in person are impossible.

So out of the REMAINING items, what would you cut, where would you save?


To be fair, think about this before you reply:

I have been hiking, camping, hunting and fishing in S. Texas since I was a kiddo. I have honed down that equipment selection over many years of use. There is a reason that every single piece of equipment is on board when I walk out.

I had my first "long" distance hike when I was 12 years old, in the Boy Scouts. We walked 10 miles in one day. To get my merit badge, we had three of those, along with one 20 mile, single day hike. To be fair, the 20 miler wasn't until I was 13, and was mostly on pavement with only a day pack. But still, I was hooked. I was sure at 13 that no one had ever walked 20 miles in just one day.

Flash forward 40 more years of hiking, camping, etc., and we are here now. I just haven't done anything that wasn't out of the back of a truck with a hippo fanny pack for a few years, and my distance gear is too old to trust. Some of it will be replaced, some will not.

I love to hear about new equipment, and certainly agree with you on the expense and question the value of the bleeding edge of hiking/camping technology.

But in the end, I was asking about the Swiss Gear pack. I like and trust my overall setup and it will probably stay intact.

As always though, I appreciate the input.

Robert

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I doubt that Wenger would make anything that's complete crap. If you have the experience you claim, then you already know how to do a visual inspection of zippers, suspension, etc. I'll add another call to load it up and see how it fits. IMO every pack feels good with no weight in it.

As for the price, I noticed when I was a SAM's member that they get a lot of stuff that's discontinued and sometimes you'll get a screaming deal. Like I picked up a real nice radio that went for $120 fore $29.99 (back in '95) because the manufacturer discontinued it and Sam's bought the remaining stock for cheap. May be the case here.

 

[Runsalone]

To be fair, think about this before you reply:

I have been hiking, camping, hunting and fishing in S. Texas since I was a kiddo. I have honed down that equipment selection over many years of use. There is a reason that every single piece of equipment is on board when I walk out.

I had my first "long" distance hike when I was 12 years old, in the Boy Scouts. We walked 10 miles in one day. To get my merit badge, we had three of those, along with one 20 mile, single day hike. To be fair, the 20 miler wasn't until I was 13, and was mostly on pavement with only a day pack. But still, I was hooked. I was sure at 13 that no one had ever walked 20 miles in just one day.

Flash forward 40 more years of hiking, camping, etc., and we are here now. I just haven't done anything that wasn't out of the back of a truck with a hippo fanny pack for a few years, and my distance gear is too old to trust. Some of it will be replaced, some will not.


But in the end, I was asking about the Swiss Gear pack. I like and trust my overall setup and it will probably stay intact.

As always though, I appreciate the input.

Robert

In light of your contentedness with you current gear, and out of respect for your personal experience in your region, I will stick with my abbreviated comments about the pack you asked about. I certainly believe in everyone having there own style:thumbup:

I apologize if I came across as questioning of your level of experience The important thing is that you have confidence in your gear since you have to carry and use it. And why fix whats not broken!!

As far as the Swiss gear pack I second the suggestion to try it on and walk around the store. And LOAD IT UP! If they wouldnt let you I wouldnt buy it. What the return policy?



P.S. If your under time contraints for the swiss gear pack, see how the return policy is. If You can just take it back if it doesnt work out, why not buy one while you have the chance ? Test it out carefully at your place with the gear you use (carefully no damage). Walk down the street for 5 miles or so. Then if it dosent feel right take it back. No harm no foul??

Let us know how you like whatever you choose.

 

[Runsalone]

Since I will be buying a new tent, new water filtering, maybe a new stove, and other things,

I also need enough money left to buy the rest of the kit I need to replace. Old compression bags have dry rotted, plastic emergency boxes are brittle, my old nalgene bottles don't seal well, my old MSR gas stove is clogged and I wouldn't trust a 25 year old pump water filter.
Robert

I took this to mean that you had decided to replace these items, my apologies.

 

[ChadHahn]

Don't forget to look for last season's bags. I've seen packs being cleared out on the web for pennies on the dollar when the new ones are introduced. You could probably get a higher grade bag for about the same price.

Chad