An Issue With Spyderco Choils

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Vivi

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I was wondering who else had this issue with Spyderco choils. On a lot of designs I notice when using the choil, my thumb is placed in an uncomfortable position. On my Meadowlark this is very noticable. It places my thumb too far forward for me to get a comfortable grip, especially during heavy use. I feel like I have to fight the knife to get it to fit my hand correctly. This is the reason I didn't like the Paramilitary as well, the choil just didn't work for me ergonomically.

I really like choils for their safety aspect and how they position your hand. Some knives the choil has worked out for me, like the Manix and the Cara Cara, but this problem seems to keep me from enjoying some of Spyderco's offerings.

One thing to note is the flat spine on the blade of the Native completely eliminates this problem for me. That was one of my favorite aspects of that knife.
 
I love choils on my knives:
Native, Adventura, Caly3, Persian, Kopa. Choils are great, very comfortable.
I do not have any Byrds or Para.
 
"This is the reason I didn't like the Paramilitary as well, the choil just didn't work for me ergonomically."

I agree. There are just some Spydercos that feel all wrong. The Para, the Military and some others just feel like they would be better with a simpler, choilless grip. I almost thought I don't like choils at all but when they are done right like on the Calypso III, they really add to the knife.

Some people say that the Para grip is comfortable and fits them well but I have heard as many other people find it is not perfect. I have never heard anyone complain about the grip of the Delica or the Police. They are simple, choiless grips that feel great in any grip style. I think sometimes Spyderco over thinks things.

The compression lock is an example, it is the solution to the problem that never existed. I'm sure there are fans of the compression lock here but I doubt it will ever become a popular lock outstide of the Spyderco world. It is not even ambi friendly. Where was the need for this lock in the first place? Who needed these strange choils like on the Para? The Para feel awkward in every grip except for the one where your finger is on the choil and your thumb is on the grooves on the back of the spine. Who really holds a knife like that? I will use that grip for light precise cuts but that is only 10% of the type of cutting I do. With the Para, probably much less. The Para was supposed to be rough tough knife not a gents folder.

I am not just bashing stuff, I am trying to add some input. The good news is, Spyderco offer so many designs that if you don't like the Para, there is still something that you should be able to pick that fills the same role. For example, the Mini-Manix is a great choice if you don't like the Para. It is much more ergo than the Para and has a normal lock back so you can rest easy. For some reason, that compression lock really bothers me. I have had just about every compression lock that Spyderco makes and I have dumpped all of them. I won't buy any more compession locks so I hope Spyderco still offers other locks for sale. I think the ball lock shows some promise but it needs to be easier to unlock with wet hands or with gloves on.
 
kgriggs, thanks for the input to my thread.

It will be interesting to see if the Pikal's version of the ball-lock will be featured in other folders. I haven't handled the model, but it looks easier to operate than a Dodo's more traditional ball lock.

I agree with your interpretation of choils. I use them the minority of the time myself. My EDC for the past few months was a Cara Cara and I'd shift to the choil if I wanted to get my hand closer to the tip for precision work or just alter the balance of the knife to better suite the cutting I was doing. The pinch grip you get with a choil and thumb ramp isn't very comfortable on the majority of spydercos I've used during use that requires greater pressure, like carving wood and making wood shavings for a fire. With the Native as I mentioned the choil was comfortable to use all the time because of the flat spine, but on other models my thumb either feels really cramped or wants to put itself past the thumb ramp and on top of the blade. I try to do this with my meadowlark and it's uncomfortable either way.

Ergonomics are an interesting issue. You can take two people with similar sized hands and they can have fairly polar opinions about the grip. I do applaud Spyderco for all their offerings. They show much more variety in their grips than most manufactuers do and I consider ergonomics to be one of the most important factors of a knife, if not the most important.
 
Vivi said:
Ergonomics are an interesting issue. You can take two people with similar sized hands and they can have fairly polar opinions about the grip. I do applaud Spyderco for all their offerings. They show much more variety in their grips than most manufactuers do and I consider ergonomics to be one of the most important factors of a knife, if not the most important.
Click to expand...
Human hands come in a remarkable array of configurations and opinions as to what "feels good" differ widely. So expecting any given knife to please everyone is asking the impossible. These differences are also why brick and mortar stores where you can at least handle, if not use, before you buy are really the best place to purchase a knife, unless you already own, or have owned one of the same model.

I think it's great that Spyderco offers a range of models that fit a variety of hands. Am confident they will continue to do that in the future, and will never concentrate on only one lock, one size, or one handle style.
 
kgriggs8 said:
"The compression lock is an example, it is the solution to the problem that never existed. I'm sure there are fans of the compression lock here but I doubt it will ever become a popular lock outstide of the Spyderco world. It is not even ambi friendly. Where was the need for this lock in the first place? .
Click to expand...

The compression lock provides a very strong & reliable lock, with very few materials. It is stronger then a frame or liner lock, and has less parts then a ball or axis lock. It's more ambi friendly then a liner lock I think. I can operate my Lil Temp pretty easily left-handed, easier then a liner lock.
 
I really like the compression lock too. It lacked the vertical play prominent in their lockbacks and I find it easier to manipulate, as well as being safer to use than a liner lock. I avoid liner locks, but the compression lock really impressed me. I hope to get a Yojimbo someday.
 
in a sense it depends on how you use it I look at the top shelf is more for short-term use for piercing for longer use a you use a Sabre grip or use my finger along the top the spine over the shelf I'm not sure however whether I'm forced to do this or whether this is more natural for most people there's also an issue of having to have enough space in steel to make the spider whole in the right place otherwise the thumb shelf would be much farther up for my comfort.
 
I love compression locks - they have the simplicity of a linerlock and the strength of... humm, now I wonder if there is any other lock stronger than a complock (of course, I'm talking about folders comparable in size and thickness).
I also like finger choils. But I do agree that they have their place. They are an improvement, but making all knives with finger choils would be pointless - and they may even impose to an otherwise briliant design. Also, there are finger choils and finger choils. Some are better than others, in terms of depth, size and position. A particular choil that works for a knife may not work well or at all on another. I guess one should judge the usefullness of a choil depending on the overall design.
 
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