an ode to the cold steel speacial projects cataloge.

Warning Warning Nonserrious hacking follows.

Not to be rude, but you guys really should learn how to read the first post in any given thread. I will give you a quote here:

Thats the essence of our new POCKET SWORD, the talwar"

Obviously we are really discussing a new fragrance for men. :p
I wonder if it is availible in non-aersol pump spray.

Picture it. Black and white commerical, vaguely eurotrash accent.....
Talwar: FOR MEN! The only fragrance that harnesses the essence of POCKET SWORD!!
Fade to Black. :D
 
you see, i like the catalogs,,and enjoy them in the bathroom..

i look at the knives,,think some might be cool.,,,remember its a cs catalog and flush...

its a magazine,,,its reading enjoyment

you have to admit,,some of them look pretty cool..and i suddenly want a blow dart!
 
I briefly met Lynn Thompson at the old Pomona Gun Show. He is a hard nosed business man. Could not negotiate him down on the price of one of his Ghurka Khukuris. So I walked away and found one later at the price I wanted. I do think that he has been a positive factor in the knife industry. For one thing he made us aware of knife steels like no other manufacturer. This has been all to the good. It used to be that all you ever heard about the knife steel was that it was “surgical steel”. What the heck is that? Cold Steel has been very proud to state the steel used in their knives (Carbon V excepted). This has made the rest of the industry get up and compete. I think that has been great.

You sure you don't mean Sal Glesser?:confused: As far as I can remember, Sal never stretched the truth and stated that AUS-8 was better than 440C, ATS34, and the like. I mean we are talking about the same Lynn Thompson, right? Mr. "sub-zero quenched 420" & "VG-1 San Mai"?

I own a lot of Cold Steel knives. All of them take a great edge. I have never abused these knives, but they also keep their edges. I would agree that Lynn really goes over board about the weapon aspects of knives, but guess what, I appreciate a dangerous knife once in a while too. I also like practical knives too.

Yeah, you've gotta hand it to those "dangerous knives", nothing else makes me feel quite as safe.:confused:

I am not going to say that his knives are cheap, they are not, but I have not been disappointed with either the edge or the worksmanship on any of mine.

There seems to be a rather vocal group of people who hate Cold Steel. I predict that their opinions will be continue to be irrelevant as long as CS makes good knives.

I think "strongly dislike" would be a better way to describe the way several others and I happen to feel. Since we're making "predictions" now, please allow me to make one. I predict that the more time that one spends on these forums, learning about the knife industry, the more one's positive opinion of the company we're discussing may change.


One thing I noted in the current CS catalog is the disappearance of a number of Carbon V models. I suspect that CS was having troubles getting a good powder coating on the knives and decided to dump those models. I noticed that for most of the models, CS would charge lets say X for the carbon V model, and 3X for the Stainless. I wonder if the costs of powder coating were bringing the price of the Carbon V models too close to the stainless, and thus they are being discontinued.

Nope. 1) CS does not manufacture their knives, so it would be impossible for CS to have a problem applying a powder coat to the knives. 2) Read up on the problems at Camillus.

Regards,
3G
 
Could the lesser use of Carbon V steel be because of Camilius having problems?

I do remember seeing LT quoted, in a fairly recent article, saying that Camillus was very delinquent on some orders, and that CS was going to be taking back some peices of equipment they (CS) owned, that Camillus was using. So, in a nutshell, I think you hit it on the head.

Regards,
3G
 
I don't worry about Proof videos causing us problems when kids are already getting expelled because their mom put a butter knife in their lunch sack to spread pb&j for a sandwich. CS sells a decent product on a lot of hype, but LT isn't hurting the industry, the sheeple are.
 
Name dropping such as Camillus proves nothing. Until you have the CS qualified vendor list in your hand, and until you have this month's list of purchased and assembled parts, you don't know who is doing what or why. Most of the discussion on these forums is simply hearsay and wild speculation.

But it has its place.

You're right, between the recent predicament at Camillus, the article where LT himself stated that Camillus had fallen behind on delivering products to CS (and CS was taking back pieces of equipment they had lent to Camillus), and the dwindling supply of CS's "Carbon V" pieces, it's all just "wild speculation" that Camillus does OEM work for CS. :rolleyes:

Wild speculation, to me, would be making a statement like, "I suspect that CS was having troubles getting a good powder coating on the knives and decided to dump those models." Sound familiar? ;)

Regards,
3G
 
I don't worry about Proof videos causing us problems when kids are already getting expelled because their mom put a butter knife in their lunch sack to spread pb&j for a sandwich. CS sells a decent product on a lot of hype, but LT isn't hurting the industry, the sheeple are.

You may want to have a look at the recent, controversial Wall Street Journal article before making statements like you did above.

Regards,
3G
 
You may want to have a look at the recent, controversial Wall Street Journal article before making statements like you did above.


So LT has hurt the industry?

Proof? The WSJ article seems to have caused more stir among knife owners than anyone else.
 
I read it, I even asked about the CJ 'tesosterone' quote on the Buck board a little while back. Still, during this time when self-defense isn't demonized in the US like it is elsewhere, I don't have a problem with the Proof videos. Showing a knife as an effective weapon seems no worse to me than showing that Filipino martial arts are effective styles when armed with a knife. MA is still legal and even admired for instilling discipline in our kids. Yet teaching knife use and safety is a bad thing. Senseless.

I don't think it's a bad thing to show people that a CS knife can slice through meat easily. I'm actually surprised that any non-vegetarian would need to be reminded of the fact that knives cut flesh, and sharp ones do it easily. I guess I'm just fortunate that the area I'm in isn't too terribly urban, and hunting/fishing/cooking are huge parts of the local heritage. No one makes a big fuss about knives.
 
Lots of manufactures "stretch the truth" in their ads.
1. SOG catalog says that the Meridian would make you a god in ancient times. :jerkit: I doubt it.
2. Emerson catalog states that they have the #1 hard use knives. How do they know? Did they survey all the knife owners in the world to see which brand is the hardest used.:confused:
3. Even my beloved Benchmade knives have stated that if the knife is even .0005" off they'll know about it. I have yet to purchase a BM where as the blade thickness has been anywhere within a +/- .0005" tolerance.

And in closing I'd like to say that the latest Cold Steel catalog says that Lynn Thompson works out 14 to 16 hrs. per week. Doing what ???? Eating donuts.:p
 
Is this the Wall Street Journal article that is being referred to? Seems to me to be after all "tactical" knives. Stabbings up 0.5%!. Probably within the measurement error of their data.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06206/708441-28.stm



Deadly pocketknives become a $1 billion business
Tuesday, July 25, 2006

By Mark Fritz, The Wall Street Journal


A decade ago, Jim Ray brought together a champion martial artist, a former Navy Seal and a police-weapons specialist to draft designs for what he hoped would be the perfect pocketknife.

But the high-tech knives the team created were never meant to whittle sticks. Instead, the team produced knives whose blades could be flicked open with one finger faster than the widely outlawed switchblade -- but were still perfectly legal. "Nobody wanted to call it a weapon" at the start, says Mr. Ray, a former proprietor of a North Carolina tourist shop. But eventually, he adds, "that changed." And soon Mr. Ray and the company he formed, Masters of Defense Inc., were marketing the blades' utility when "shooting is just not appropriate."

Mr. Ray was a pioneer in a technological revolution that has transformed "tactical" knives -- originally used in military combat -- into a $1-billion-a-year consumer business, aimed at just about anyone in the market for a small knife. These 21st century pocketknives, with their curved, perforated or serrated blades and ergonomic grips, can inflict deadly damage, but they are also compact, easily concealed and virtually unregulated.

In March, a monthly FBI bulletin alerted law-enforcement agents nationwide to "the emerging threats" posed by the knives. Though there are no statistics on how many crimes have involved tactical-style knives, the FBI says knife-related crimes have edged up, to 15.5 percent in 2004 from 15 percent in 2000. In that time, violent crime in general dropped 4.1 percent.

The knives' popularity has been a boon to some retailers. Mike Janes, owner of Second Amendment Sports, a hunting, fishing and camping superstore in Bakersfield, Calif., says that knife sales have been climbing an average of 25 percent a year in the past decade and that 75 percent of the pocketknives he sells are tactical. "Are you tacti-cool? That's what we say down here," Mr. Janes says.

Dave Vanderhoff, who runs U.S. Martial Arts in Clifford, N.J., recently taught a knife-fighting class that included a judge, a banker, a nurse, a young woman with a belly ring and a French chef from Manhattan. And Spyderco Inc., for example, makes a tactical knife that, when folded, masquerades as a credit card.

But the marketing techniques for some of the new pocketknives aren't so mainstream. Cold Steel Inc. makes the 3/4-ounce "Urban Pal," which has a 1.5-inch blade. "The Urban Pal should be standard equipment for survival in today's urban jungle," its Web site says.

Lawyers for the tactical-knife industry have persuaded government officials that even minor manual movement -- no matter how enhanced by levers and springs -- separates the knives from switchblades, which require pressing a button on the handle to flip open the blade. "We have to resist the application of the 1950s switchblade laws to the new technology," says lawyer Daniel Lawson, a knife collector in Pittsburgh who represents the tactical-knife industry. Thirty-seven states now outlaw switchblades, partly because they developed a cult following among teenagers in the 1950s. But, says David Kowalski, a former knife magazine editor and a spokesman for the industry, tactical knifes have remained legal because "the laws across the U.S. are a mishmash because (legislators) really don't know anything about knives."

Modern tactical knives are rooted in the 1980s, when some martial artists in the U.S. became practitioners of a Filipino style of knife-fighting. An early innovator was Ernest R. Emerson, a martial artist and custom knife builder. In 1995, Oregon's Benchmade Knife Co. collaborated with Mr. Emerson to mass produce the Closed Quarters Combat 7 knife. It opened quickly, locked in place and could be closed with one hand.

Mr. Emerson, 51 years old, says he insisted on selling that knife for $159, believing the high price, performance and custom look would give it cachet. The knife was a hit, and competition got hot. Mr. Emerson formed his own company in 1997 and says annual sales rose to about $10 million last year from $800,000 at the start.

Worried that they might face regulatory scrutiny, makers of the new-style pocketknives formed the American Knife and Tool Institute. The trade group credits U.S. Sen. Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat, with persuading U.S. Customs in 2001 to stop seizing shipments of one-hand-opening tactical knives that some investigators considered switchblades. A spokesman for Sen. Wyden, Andrew Blotky, says he can't confirm the senator's involvement.

Soon the upstarts who dominated the self-defense market were jolting the traditional knife industry. Buck Knife Co., a staple among sportsmen; W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery, famed for its collectible pen knives; and Leatherman Tool Group Inc., which makes pocket-sized tool kits, have all introduced tactical knives since 2003.

"It's a testosterone thing," says Buck's chairman, Charles "Chuck" Buck, 75 years old, who estimates the retail market for tactical knives at $1 billion.

Leatherman Tool Group jumped on the tactical-knife bandwagon in 2005, introducing a full line of tactical-type knives. The most prominent feature on its knives is the "Blade Launcher" mechanism, which lets the user flip a menacing-looking blade out of its handle with lightning speed. Yet it also has a bottle-cap opener, a nod to Leatherman's heritage.

Not all makers of tactical knives agree on how to market them. Buck, for example, boasts in marketing materials about the "stopping power" of its tactical knives and bills its "Bones" knife as "bad to the bone."

But Tom Arrowsmith, chief executive of W.R. Case, accuses competitors of "weaponizing" the pocketknife and says it's an approach his company won't take. He does concede, though, that customer demand has prompted his company, a 117-year-old maker of pretty penknives, to offer a line of one-hand-opening knives with tactical features.

The blades on most of the new pocketknives are less than four inches long, the maximum length that passengers were permitted to carry onto U.S. airlines before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In 2004, the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks concluded that the hijackers in those attacks used short knives -- not box cutters -- to seize control of the planes. At the Pennsylvania crash site, 14 badly damaged knife parts were collected, and at least half have tactical-knife characteristics. But the FBI cautions that it can't be sure those parts are from knives that belonged to the hijackers.

Technology has made blade length almost irrelevant. The city of Atlanta prohibits people from carrying pocketknives in public with blades longer than two inches. Yet, in a widely publicized case, ex-Marine Thomas Autry used a two-inch blade in May to kill one mugger and wound another when he was confronted by five assailants armed with a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol.

"Clearly we are seeing wounds you would expect from a bigger blade from what victims say was a small knife," says Andrew Ulrich, a Boston Medical Center emergency-room doctor.

Mr. Janes of Second Amendment Sports is one of several retailers who have added knife training to their businesses. He says "this large influx of people carrying 'tactical folders' didn't know how to use them."

Nicholas Nobella, 25, took a four-hour class at the Bakersfield shop. Several months later, he admitted to police that he stuck his tactical knife into stripper Edward Pedrosa, 24, during a melee that broke out when men attending a bachelor party raided a bawdy bash for the bride-to-be, says Kern County, Calif., Deputy District Attorney Matt Magner. Mr. Pedrosa died. Mr. Nobella's lawyer says his client was acting in self-defense.

Mr. Janes says Mr. Nobella isn't typical of the students at his knife classes.

Meanwhile, in the race for the next big thing, some companies are competing to make more durable ceramic and plastic knives that can pass through metal detectors. Plastic "assisted-opening" knives that flick open with a slight nudge of the blade can be purchased on eBay for $20.

Cold Steel sales director Rick Valdez describes the company's $15 "Night Shade" plastic knives as "letter openers." Nonetheless, the company's Web site has a film clip of men attacking slabs of meat and decapitating plywood people, and it notes that the knives can be "taped just about anywhere" on the body.

Yes, that would be the article I was speaking of. What about Cold Steel does the author seem to focus on?

Regards,
3G
 
Lots of manufactures "stretch the truth" in their ads.
1. SOG catalog says that the Meridian would make you a god in ancient times. :jerkit: I doubt it.
2. Emerson catalog states that they have the #1 hard use knives. How do they know? Did they survey all the knife owners in the world to see which brand is the hardest used.:confused:
3. Even my beloved Benchmade knives have stated that if the knife is even .0005" off they'll know about it. I have yet to purchase a BM where as the blade thickness has been anywhere within a +/- .0005" tolerance.

And in closing I'd like to say that the latest Cold Steel catalog says that Lynn Thompson works out 14 to 16 hrs. per week. Doing what ???? Eating donuts.:p
1. They're not lying. I ran into Bill & Ted the other day, while I was carrying a SOG Topo Meridian. They took me back to ancient Greece in their phone booth, where I was worshipped for a solid half-hour before I had to leave (couldn't find any TP in ancient Greece, and nature was bangin' on the door... if you know what I mean).
2. Yes. (snicker)
3. I think they employ a psychic machinist for this purpose. One time, I bought 67 Skirmishes all at once, in hopes of finding a *perfect* one, since an off-centered blade really drives me nuts. The closest one was pretty close, but for some reason it still made me feel "nuts" when I held it in my hand.
So, I called Benchmade and asked them if my knife had a centered blade, and sure enough.... After a several-minute wait, I was informed that my knife's blade was off-center by 0.000000097375 inches. Wow! I didn't even have to send it in!!!!
 
Last I heard, he was going off to the sandbox. Has anybody heard how he's doing?

Regards,
3G
 
BF HotButtons: :)

1. M-Tech knives are the greatest !
2. China makes the best blades in the world !
3. There are no bad Cold Steel knives !
4. All of Lynn Thompson's claims are based on known facts !
5. AUS-4 holds an edge as well or better than S30V !
6. Since the knife business is a BUSINESS, it's OK to 'borrow' a design from a well known maker (and then make the blade out of die-cast zinc).
7. Your average soccer-mom or Jr High proncipal knows an EVIL knife when she sees it !

Let the pounding begin... !!!!
('Cuse me while I run for cover !!) :)
 
This is old news, and the only thing it seems to produce is a lot of bellyaching.

...It's still pretty funny, though.
 
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