1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

An Old Warhorse

Discussion in 'Sword Discussion' started by horseclover, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    After some months in consideration, I have adopted this example.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    While those know me as a spadroon nut, or eagle head pommel nut; I also have a range of cavalry swords over the centuries. My earliest sabre is about a century after this posted walloon type. It has a Wundes king blade mark as well. My sabre soon before the mark rights were sold to the Weyersburg family.

    [​IMG]

    This walloon/haudegen really kind of rounds out my assortment of early modern cavalry swords. If I ever adopt an earlier mortuary, I'll be rounding the collecting back another century. With a blade just shy of 35", it certainly seems meant for mounted use. More specifications once in hand.

    Cheers
    GC
     
    Armadew, Mecha, DocJD and 2 others like this.
  2. J W Bensinger

    J W Bensinger

    Mar 26, 2009
    The hilt on that first sword is one I've been wanting to reproduce ever since I saw it in the Tower of London book back in the '90's. Very, very nice
     
  3. Fiddleback

    Fiddleback Knifemaker Moderator

    Oct 19, 2005
    I love all the forge welding on the hilt.
     
    J W Bensinger likes this.
  4. J W Bensinger

    J W Bensinger

    Mar 26, 2009
    A lot of complex hilts were forge brazed (mechanically assembled, fluxed and then held over the coal forge until the brass slumped)-it's tricky (I've only done it once) but when it goes right it is cool as hell
     
    Mecha likes this.
  5. The Zieg

    The Zieg

    Jan 31, 2002
    Outstanding Walloon sword. The thumb ring is indicative of cavalry use most often.

    Zieg
     
  6. Mecha

    Mecha Madscienceforge.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 27, 2013
    I was gonna ask about that ring. A thumb ring, yowza. :eek: I'd like to see what the hilt looks like while being held, Horseclover.
     
  7. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    I'll work on a photo in hand but suffice it to say the hilt is huge in comparison to my size 13 hands. In a hammer grip, even with gauntlets (I lack those but prefer flight gloves), there is a sense of nothingness. As in the thumb to grip interference is nil when gripping the sword. Lessee here.......My archaic phone at close proximity. Not exactly clear but you get the idea. I have been meaning to add in house pictures but haven't cleared the decks for a photo shoot, as it were. 0910-153912.jpg 0910-153843.jpg 0910-153813.jpg 0910-153743.jpg

    A haudegen, hewing sword, and actually a lot of wrist freedom in a supple hammer grip.

    As I don't have most of the horde in house at this point, this is actually one at arms length here. I'm working on a plan to get everything situated here, including more tools but condo life is kind of dampening a lot of activity. A pluses and minuses situation.
     
    Mecha likes this.
  8. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    Abstracting from a thread elsewhere, here are some specifications and observations.
    ``````````````````

    I'll post some specifications regarding the walloon in a mixed order of metric and inches, just because I can.

    Overall length of 41" with a grip of 4" and the blade 34.75 inches.
    The blade width ranges from 4cm at the hilt and 2.5cm an inch from the point.
    With a weight of 2.5 lbs, the cog is as mentioned previously, right at the Wundes mark and that's 4" from the guard. A lot of weight in the hand when flourishing, I find the forward point of rotation about eight inches from the point. That pointy end rapidly drops from 3mm to 2mm in thickness and is still about a millimeter and a half thick at the point. From the cog to that forward point of rotation, I'm seeing 5mm to that forward rotational point. So, for about 22"-23" of blade, the thickness is only reducing a couple of millimeters over a good portion of the blade.

    Cheers
    GC
     
    Mecha likes this.
  9. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    More? OK, another post or three from a discussion elsewhere. This from earlier before measuring
    `````````````````````
    Still more of a write up with specifications to come. This arrived this afternoon and two first impressions are a bit striking. The photos above are quite a bit brighter than daylight, so the hilt is a good bit darker but not more than a dark patina. The reddish at the base of the blade is actually the remains of the leather that had seated the blade. The fitment is rock solid and no movement of the wire. The grip a bit rectangular in cross section, which doesn't come across in the photos. Ok, that was more than one first impression. The pierced port plates a bit dimpled but tight and complete.

    The second almost startling impression. I'll get to specifications in time but remarkably and aside from this other sword I own having a fullered blade and is 200 years newer, they are both of a cutting cross section and much the same in dimension and feel. I do hope to reunite them when out for public display this next month (weather and health providing).

    The walloon is remarkably sharp in spots and the whole likely dulled a bit at some point. Both swords flexible in the foible but not overly so. This later sword also a backsword of types vs the walloon's double edge.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    Earlier still in the discussion, remarks on my Wundes sabre shown earlier here.
    ````````````````
    Thanks, I look forward to the actual inspection but the cross section on many of these seem to be lenticular/ovoid/elliptical.

    Another term to describe them aside from felddegen or haudegen is a modern and common term of schwedendegen.

    Trying to more precisely date them can be tricky, it seems. One clue that I am looking at, which may turn out to be a wild goose chase is the use of screws, or not. Plus trying to determine which Wundes.

    My sabre was determined to be mid 18th century and likely a Swedish build. This was examined and determined by Dr. Jeffrey L. Forgeng, curator and a director of the Higgins Armoury. It was my first European antique buy. Much like my first reproduction, I thought the first would be enough [​IMG] but I had already started with smaller eastern stuff and a first long blade my yataghan. It has all grown pretty quickly to dealing with too many.

    [​IMG]

    Here with the yataghan, my first eagles and some other stuff from a decade ago.
    [​IMG]

    That sabre has a not so drastic concave distal property. IIRC about 8mm at the hilt. The epee d'ville in that last picture more than 9mm at the hilt to scalpel at the tip.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Mecha

    Mecha Madscienceforge.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 27, 2013
    Thanks for those in-hand shots, Horseclover. I can clearly see now what that ring is all about, imagining using it from horseback.
     
  12. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    The thumb ring swords were not limited to cavalry swords and I don't have a clear definition of when they began to appear in western Europe but most feel it is a 17th century thing but we see them on later swords. There is also debate about what constitutes a Walloon and that the term actually only belongs to a group of swords with a less elaborate hilt. Here is a good overview of discussion and examples.
    http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13795

    Going by the Innsbruck photo with the wall of swords, it is a look at uniformity produced for an army.

    Cheers
    GC
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
    The Zieg and Mecha like this.
  13. Armadew

    Armadew Reisloafer Platinum Member

    Nov 22, 2006
    Capture.PNG

    I have a more curvy example.

    1670-1690 German Hanger (Solingen)

    I'll get better pics/info when I'm back home.
     
    Mecha and WValtakis like this.
  14. Armadew

    Armadew Reisloafer Platinum Member

    Nov 22, 2006
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Armadew

    Armadew Reisloafer Platinum Member

    Nov 22, 2006
    Sorry, still not great photos.
     
  16. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    Interesting piece. Does the grip seem like iron or steel to you?

    Cheers
    GC
     
  17. Armadew

    Armadew Reisloafer Platinum Member

    Nov 22, 2006
    I would put (a small amount of) money on it being steel.
     
  18. horseclover

    horseclover Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    It is an interesting possibility, in that cast steel was starting to turn up with French smallsword fittings and I've a mixed metal/plated grip I am assuming to be Swedish or Danish that was assembled as part of a composite I have but the grip very 17th century in form. I have a Passau sheet around somewhere from a Wagner book. It is great to see the running wolf on sabre.

    wolffromWagner.jpg IMG_0971.JPG poinard001d.jpg
     

Share This Page