And a hungry little boy with a runny nose

Without getting too political here (and definitely not soliciting such from anyone else), it's a damned shame that hard-working, productive members of this society sometimes have to live in neighborhoods where they are in danger, whether simply perceived or tangible.

Not to get on my high-horse here, but cops, firefighters and teachers (as well as many others) should not have to live in section-8 areas because pay for them is so low, and housing in major urban areas is so damned far-fetched.

(Okay...off of my towering steed now)
J
 
One of my favorite Political Science professors said that such professions paid in more than money...in social prestige and pride and whatnot, and that as a result, the free market pay rates for them didn't reflect their real-world importance. He used trash collectors as an example of the phenomenon working the other way....they get paid more than their educational levels would suggest they should, because there's a lack of prestige associated with their profession; thus they recieve higher wages to compensate for the lack of prestige.
 
BubbaThud said:
One of my favorite Political Science professors said that such professions paid in more than money...in social prestige and pride and whatnot, and that as a result, the free market pay rates for them didn't reflect their real-world importance. He used trash collectors as an example of the phenomenon working the other way....they get paid more than their educational levels would suggest they should, because there's a lack of prestige associated with their profession; thus they recieve higher wages to compensate for the lack of prestige.
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I only wish the social prestige (what? Where's that?) and pride manifested themselves in tangible things, like more square-footage, and nicer neighborhood vistas. ; )

To speak directly to the "social prestige" thing, I don't ever feel like we (teachers) get any of that. I often hear parents and others talk about how it's a shame teachers get the pay they get, but it's never reflected in votes.

Right now, Florida is in dire economic straights. The state has said we need to cut over 2.5 billion dollars in public spending over the next two years. Guess where 2 billion of it are coming from: law enforcement (specifically prisons) and education. Miami-Dade County Public Schools is one of the top 3 largest school districts in the U.S., and they're cutting over a billion dollars from our budget over the next 2 years.

Bubba, I don't disagree with what your teacher said, but I think everyone realizes that while things ARE that way, that is not the way they SHOULD be. Matter of fact, I feel like the LACK of prestige with which I have seen teachers presented should be equalized economically. Just like santiation workers ; )

What do you think?
 
East Palo Alto isn't much rougher than a few places I have lived.

One good thing is that there are a lot of for sale signs. It seems that some of the unsavory element mortgaged out their homes with ARMs and couldn't keep up the payments after the teaser ended. Gentrification is my friend.

Tracy, Manteca and Stockton are all too far from my job. I don't want to lose two hours of my day on a commute and buying gas would be ridiculous. Also Stockton has some rough spots.

The other place with houses in my price range is East San Jose which is nearly as bad crime wise and a lot worse for my commute. East San Jose also seems to suffer from the problem of 3-4 families living under one roof, the streets are always clogged with parked cars. East Palo Alto doesn't have so much of that and when I looked at two nearly identical houses, the one in EPA is asking $105,000 less.

There is an element of danger but I seem to stay out of trouble pretty well. If I can't avoid trouble, I'll rely on superior fire power to get out of it. It's time to finish up that 1919A4 kit (I'll get some sand bags too).

Today I saw another cheap fixer. This one is better, no fire but it might have plumbing problems. It looks a lot closer to livable and the yard is wide enough for back yard vehicle access. I wonder what's inside.
 
Hogwash said:
Plays in the street as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto...
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...And his hunger burns
So he starts to roam the streets at night
And he learns how to steel
And he lurns how to fight
In the ghetto...


ah, I'm just wanting to sing Elvis:p

Hope you find what your looking for at a good price! Take your time and make sure you get what you want in your price range.
 
Hogwash,

Think of it this way. You're a single man in a depressed real-estate market. In your position, I don't think it would be a bad idea to buy in a less-than-ideal area. If you buy well, you will already have equity in your property, and the fact that you're single means you don't hafta take the safety of another into consideration just yet. If you can defend yourself, and you're pretty good at avoiding problems, EPA could be a perfect situation for you...until you meet that woman. But then--assuming you go about marriage intelligently--you will have found a productive partner with whom you can pool your resources (as well as your earned equity) and move to a better, more family-friendly area.

This is not even taking into consideration that through gentrification, EPA COULD become a housing hotspot when the market revives a bit, especially if the ARM travesty creates attrition in terms of bad neighbors. Then you could be in REALLY good shape.

A lot of people made good money here in Miami after Hurricane Andrew hit in '92. Lots of empty shells and fixer uppers went for below 20g's, and with some work were being sold for 3 times that 4 years later.

J
 
I'mGatMan! said:
I only wish the social prestige (what? Where's that?) and pride manifested themselves in tangible things, like more square-footage, and nicer neighborhood vistas. ; )

Bubba, I don't disagree with what your teacher said, but I think everyone realizes that while things ARE that way, that is not the way they SHOULD be. Matter of fact, I feel like the LACK of prestige with which I have seen teachers presented should be equalized economically. Just like santiation workers ; )

What do you think?
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While that professor was one of my favorites, I didn't agree with his political or economic views very often, and this was one of them that I thought was composed of 18 karat bovine excrement, so don't hesitate to disagree with him on my account. :)

In my experience...teachers don't get a lot of prestige. Everyone says you're just in it for the paycheck unless you're putting in 80 hour work weeks and doing all kinds of insane things to try to "help the students succeed" like paying them for their grades or whatnot. The admin blames them, the students blame them, the teachers blame them, and the politicians blame them. Teachers, military personel, and police officers all seem to recieve more than their fair shame of blame for conditions that have nothing to do with and cannot control.

My wife had a Women's Study professor who said the low pay teachers recieve is based on teaching having been a female dominated profession in the US for so long...thus THE MAN keeps the pay low to opress the poor women. Please see the previous paragraph for my opinion on that theory.

I certainly agree with the teachers should get paid more. Same thing for military personel and law enforcement officers. Given how important these roles are to the development and maintenance of our society, the low wages we pay are just embarrassing. Fortunately, there are enough people who feel the job is important enough to do well, to keep everything going so far at least.
 
I honestly don't think it's as bad as it's reputation and it has been getting better at a steady rate.

I saw something that I've never seen before, a person in an Escalade buying some sort of drugs. The surrounding area is so affluent and well policed that all of the crime funnels in to EPA because they don't have the budget for a big police force.

I was reading about what made EPA the way it is and "blockbusting" did it. From my understanding it was racist real estate agents steering black people toward EPA for one sale commission, then getting another two commissions for every racist neighbor they convinced to move out of EPA because "the black people are coming".

Now it's mostly Mexicans living there and a lot of pacific islanders also. There are not a lot of affordable places to live in Silicon Valley and most "poor" people don't have the money or credit to buy a house, even in EPA so I think most of the new neighbors will not be crooks or dealers.
 
The reason teachers are poorly paid is that there are too many people with teaching credentials and too many people who want to teach. Their summer vacation doesn't help either. The same thing happens with Pediatricians although god knows why any one would want to be exposed to so many different sick kids every day.

Garbage men make a lot because they have a union and garbage strikes stink, literally. Also 62 year old Mrs. Xyz third grade teacher isn't going to hit a scab over the head with an aluminum bat for crossing the picket line.
 
Hogwash said:
Also 62 year old Mrs. Xyz third grade teacher isn't going to hit a scab over the head with an aluminum bat for crossing the picket line.
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Hahahaha I loled hard enough I knocked my kid off of my lap, and it is so so true.

However, I disagree with you about the too many people with teaching credentials for too few jobs thing. Most states have teacher shortages. Most teachers quit teaching within three years of recieving their credentials, and most states are making the credentialing process more difficult because they blame "poorly qualified" teachers for the education crisis being experienced in so much of the US.

I don't have an alternative reason to suggest, so maybe you're right, but based on my understanding of the teaching for public education situation as it presently stands, too many teachers isn't the basis for the low pay.
 
Do you know anything about private schools?

Their pay scales are determined by taking the state rate and lowering it 10-15%.

Guess what, they don't have teacher shortages.

Good teachers get tired of bad students and quit but there are always more people coming out of college who want to "make a difference" and get a teaching credential to go along with their less than marketable degree.

It's the lowest common denominator that sets the scale. As long as they can get a kid straight out of school for cheap, that's going to hold down every salary and with those less than marketable degrees, a lot of those kids have to take what they can get.
 
BubbaThud said:
My wife had a Women's Study professor who said the low pay teachers recieve is based on teaching having been a female dominated profession in the US for so long...thus THE MAN keeps the pay low to opress the poor women. Please see the previous paragraph for my opinion on that theory.
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I actually don't think your wife's teacher was too far off the mark. Matter of fact, I heard that same thing from female AND male professors. History supports this by demonstrating that for a long time, teaching and nursing were the ONLY jobs women could really do outside of the home. Another reason we don't really get paid so well is that teachers aren't really considered professionals the way bankers, business-men, and doctors are. However, when you look at reasons for that, one of the major ones is always our pay. I've read (in journals) and heard (in classes and small learning communities) it said that if we LOOKED more like professionals, we would be considered professionals. Weird conundrum.

BubbaThud said:
However, I disagree with you about the too many people with teaching credentials for too few jobs thing. Most states have teacher shortages. Most teachers quit teaching within three years of recieving their credentials, and most states are making the credentialing process more difficult because they blame "poorly qualified" teachers for the education crisis being experienced in so much of the US.

I don't have an alternative reason to suggest, so maybe you're right, but based on my understanding of the teaching for public education situation as it presently stands, too many teachers isn't the basis for the low pay.
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I'm gonna cosign Bubba here. Miami is losing a LOT of teachers, and it's happening all across the nation as well. The gov creates these standards like "National Boards" to act as incentives for teachers to become more highly trained, however Miami-Dade and Broward counties just eliminated incentive pay for becoming national board certified. :confused:

Hogwash said:
Also 62 year old Mrs. Xyz third grade teacher isn't going to hit a scab over the head with an aluminum bat for crossing the picket line.
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Actually, I've seen some militant-ass old ladies in the school system. :D However, Florida is a no-strike state. It's BS, but it keeps people in line. :rolleyes:
 
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I wouldn't repeat that comment about "their summer vacation..." around a teacher. I'm married to one, and I can tell you from experience that they don't really appreciate it:) Good luck with the house hunt, hope to see you at Blade on Friday.

GregB
 
Wifey and I LOVE our summer vacations. We spend a lot of that time doing things we don't normally get to do during the year, like traveling, spending time with family, she scrapbooks, and I shoot or take classes when I can. Last year we did our honeymoon cruise to Hawaii during the summer, and the christmas prior we were able to visit family in Puerto Rico. Of course, the Hawaii trip was a wedding gift. We would have had to save a LOT to pay it ourselves.

Teachers can definitely make a lot more money per year by teaching extra classes (when available) and taking extra jobs during the summer, but the truth is that a lot of us are lazy and feel like we deserve the free time. So many of us squander our vacations because we are so damned exhausted at the end of the year.

I am hoping to get a job working at a local gun shop this summer so that I can learn the business. I have been thinking about some day owning a shop/range of my own, so it would be a good way to learn the business.

Oh, and as for private school teachers, you are right. Those people are willing to work for even less money so that they don't have to deal with the types of kids we public school teachers deal with. I have known some private school teachers who were happy to make their ducats as long as they didn't have gang kids, etc. in their classes, however the fact that they don't have shortages is because those people who want to teach and can't find jobs often end up at the private schools. A few of my wife's associates started at private or charter schools until positions opened at the public schools closest to them.

And to get back on topic:

Wifey and I were really hoping to sell our home and move away from the city by next fall, but with the market the way it is, we're gonna hafta stick around a bit longer. Hopefully you find yourself a decent place at a great price, and make some great equity in your purchase. Good luck.
 
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I've heard a lot of teachers talk about spending their "summer vacation" preparing for next year but I've also heard of teachers taking seasonal work or just bumming around.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing (I would love it) but it's hard to justify a 100% equal salary for a person who only has to work 75-80% of the days.

Even if a teacher has an issue with someone calling it a "summer vacation", it would be pretty silly to ignore it when talking about teacher salary.
 
Teachers and Police Officers get some kind of financial incentive to buy houses in bad neighborhoods in this state, so I imagine I'll end up in a fixer uper like Hogwash is describing at some point. Wheeee!
 
I'mGatMan! said:
I just hafta add:

I have a great woman. Who else would marry a man AFTER finding out he had cancer. And as for the car thing, well,, the Jetta was stick, and wifey doesn't wanna drive stick in Miami, so oh well...:D:thumbup:






had to do right by the conscience
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Don't let her go, Brother. Do NOT let her go.

You are an unusually lucky young man. :thumbup::D:thumbup:
 
OldPhysics said:
Don't let her go, Brother. Do NOT let her go.

You are an unusually lucky young man. :thumbup::D:thumbup:
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Why thank you, sir. You don't hafta worry about me letting her go. I don't see myself marrying more than once, so I'll be doing everything I can to make sure this works out.

On another--more clandestine note--I am going to take you up on your offer (you know...the one we talked about.);) I'll be sending details to you via your email. Thanks, brother.:thumbup:
 
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