And If You Use The Friends & Family In Paypal For A Purchase Then

Azula Gun Holsters

Azula Gun Holsters

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
1,114
You leave yourself wide open for the short end of the stick. You are not covered, have no recourse, unprotected.

If you pay as goods BOTH the buyer and seller are protected. Every month we get a customer who says the package shows delivered but they don't have it. Sometimes this may be true or they may not be telling the truth. Paypal covers both the buyer and seller. We tell the customer to file a claim with paypal and as long as we have proof of delivery we don't lose our money. Up to $750 with just tracking and over $750 needs a signature.

Case in point. Purchased a Busse & Kin from the exchange. Paid on the 5th. Seller inputs tracking number but the package shows that it has never been dropped off at the post office. E-mailed the seller who said they were having problems with USPS and would check and get back to me. Have not heard back from them yet.
Will give it a couple more days and then file a claim with paypal and get my money back, just that simple. No fuss, don't have to e-mail back and forth with the seller, then having to post up all the drama.

We have been shipping with USPS for many years and Priority Mail is very rarely lost. We have had a number of first class mail packages lost but not priority mail. Priority mail and paypal goods and you are good to go.
 
For a small percentage, especially from users with low feedback, it is not worth the risk!
Protect the hogs lol
 
I only accept Western Union money orders from members of government in Nigeria. :thumbup:

Edit: On a serious note, that's the primary reason why I will never use "Friends and Family" (except the times I donate to charity cases)
 
Every Month ?
Wow that is a lot of packages "Lost"

I am really really glad I deal with honest people and the USPS has been very good to me.

In over 15 years of doing business and literally thousands of packages shipped all over the world .I have had maybe 5 packages lost or said to be lost total
(knocking on wood)

of those 5, 2 were found and 2 the USPS (not pay-pal) took care of the claim through insurance.

I also do not do friends and family, unless it is from friends and family. With that said, in the instances above pay-pal seems to always error on the side of the purchaser not the seller.
At least in my few occasions that has been my experience.

I have also read where pay-pal may cover the seller but only if you use the USPS shipping purchased through them, if you go to the PO and purchase shipping not so much.
But again that is my experience of only a few instances.

No where near once a month every month.

Hope you have better luck this month.


Azula Gun Holsters said:
You leave yourself wide open for the short end of the stick. You are not covered, have no recourse, unprotected.

If you pay as goods BOTH the buyer and seller are protected. Every month we get a customer who says the package shows delivered but they don't have it. Sometimes this may be true or they may not be telling the truth. Paypal covers both the buyer and seller. We tell the customer to file a claim with paypal and as long as we have proof of delivery we don't lose our money. Up to $750 with just tracking and over $750 needs a signature.

Case in point. Purchased a Busse & Kin from the exchange. Paid on the 5th. Seller inputs tracking number but the package shows that it has never been dropped off at the post office. E-mailed the seller who said they were having problems with USPS and would check and get back to me. Have not heard back from them yet.
Will give it a couple more days and then file a claim with paypal and get my money back, just that simple. No fuss, don't have to e-mail back and forth with the seller, then having to post up all the drama.

We have been shipping with USPS for many years and Priority Mail is very rarely lost. We have had a number of first class mail packages lost but not priority mail. Priority mail and paypal goods and you are good to go.
Click to expand...
 
No, you do not have to use the USPS shipping through Paypal. We use stamps.com as our USPS shipping and we are covered by paypal. They only require a verified tracking number and it does not matter who you purchase the shipping through.
If you can show the package was delivered Paypal will cover you as a seller.

We mostly ship via 1st class mail and packages do get lost on an average of at least one every month. Priority mail does not get lost very often but there is enough of a savings between the 1st class mail and priority mail to self insure if one gets lost and we have to reship the order. Higher value orders will go Priority Mail and would not send a Busse knife 1st class mail.

Not to confuse a lost 1st class package with a tracking number that shows delivered and the buyer claims they did not receive.

If the 1st class package goes missing and can't be tracked we reship on our dime. If the package shows delivered and the buyer claims they did not get it we claim with Paypal.
We can not remember the last time a Priority mail package was lost.

1st class is only for packages up to 13oz. Any package over 13oz can't go 1st class mail.
 
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Pretty common sense stuff here, but good to be reminded of from time to time...and heck, a lot of the wee piglets may have never heard of to, begin with! :thumbup:

I'll add that when I'm sending something out to a buyer, when I get to the P.O. I always ask the clerk for a receipt.

Not bulletproof protection, I realize, but it is one more layer of protection for sellers that is often overlooked.

It fills in that void you mentioned when the buyer says electronic tracking shows the parcel was never dropped off at the P.O.
 
Yup I take a picture of the parcel with the shipping information and tracking right on the package as well as the till receipt.
 
I like to email a buyer a picture of the receipt. For 2 reasons. One to show the day it shipped and 2 because sometimes i mess up typing tracking numbers. I use FedEx for most shipments though. I also insure the package fully or slightly over.
 
Yep. Best to spend the extra small amount for protection. Thanks for the posting.
 
Not sure why this thread is here instead of GB&U...
But I'm gonna let it ride.

Even if you have a grail I've been chasing...if you request f&f, or post that you accept that option by posting 2 amounts and letting the Seller choose, I stroll.
I've passed up many knives on the X over the last few years because of acceptance of F&F.
 
I'm low feedback because I'm only a guy who collects and not a dealer. I've done 8 deals and only 2 left feedback. and I've bought 3 blades direct from Busse.
 
Nature of the best mate, I have received feedback for about 75% of the transactions I have completed here. That said I have yet to have someone outright refuse to deal with me because of this (when my feedback was till in the less than 10 range).
 
Jaxx said:
Not sure why this thread is here instead of GB&U...
But I'm gonna let it ride.

Even if you have a grail I've been chasing...if you request f&f, or post that you accept that option by posting 2 amounts and letting the Seller choose, I stroll.
I've passed up many knives on the X over the last few years because of acceptance of F&F.
Click to expand...

If you have the option of both, why walk away? I'm not trying to start things, I'm legitimately curious.
 
I won't buy ff or sell ff. G/s protects both parties. I don't have any idea why anyone would want to use ff for anything besides friends and family. I guess if you had money in your pp account you might save a couple bucks but that's nonsense. Friends and family though shows up on a large percentage of the busse sales threads. I guess we won't even mention that when a person sells an item and asks for friends and family they are actually defrauding pp. Dishonesty right off the bat.

Seems like the issue comes up everything few weeks and I still can't figure out why people on the exchange advertise selling a knife and asking for ff.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
 
I think people put fnf to try to save others money. But if you just post a price appropriate to how much you want in pocket after fees there is no issue. If you want room to haggle....add it in price. If someone wants it....they will pay the extra.
 
So, most of us have mentioned many times how wonderful it is around here and how great the people are but when it comes to PayPal that all goes away? Lol

Not for me. I've had nothing but great transactions here. 100% positive feedback. I don't deal with anyone who seems shady or anyone I don't want to. F&F works great if the two people want to use it. I ship insured to cover my butt.
 
I think as a buyer I've always paid goods on Paypal for the protection, but I've also paid by postal money order a couple of times when the seller was a longstanding member with positive feedback and had no issues.

I've only sold a few times, but I thought it was fine to list a friends and a goods price to give the buyer the option, since it seems like nearly everyone either does that or plays the "net to me" game.

Not a big deal to me to just give a goods price though. If someone I consider a friend here wants something, I guess we could discuss over pm/email.
 
I concur, it is the intelligent choice to use PP G&S, however, I must be on the unlucky side of the USPS, I have been selling and buying on ebay for 12+ and other places. I have had a good 20+ packages lost. The most expensive was an Aimpoint T-1, I paid with Paypal and filed a claim they made me fill out a form on the NET and an hour later I had my money back... I do not trust the post office at all, I had an important document overnighted to me a few years ago. It took 9 days to get to me.....

Murphy usually gets me too, I have wasted so much on insurance and have never benefited from it. So now I usually only put insurance on really expensive items or from buyers with low feed back score. There are some shady people that lie because its easy to get away with from a buyers standpoint (just have to say "I didn't get it") and then eBay forces the seller to refund the buyer... With items priced around 100 to what ever I feel reasonable I usually just require signature on delivery.

Also, PayPal has a hidden shipping feature that lets you ship first class through PayPal since you can't do it though the USPS.com JUST FYI!
 
zmbhntr said:
If you have the option of both, why walk away? I'm not trying to start things, I'm legitimately curious.
Click to expand...

Because it is unethical to suggest acceptance by F&F at all.. Whether you like it or not, PayPal provides a service. After years of bitching @ PP, they finally provide a free option to donate to charities and send money to friends & family, and immediately almost everyone started to use it for doing profitable business...then rant when they get screwed using it. I view it as a warning flag, not to mention the loss of buyer/ seller protection through PP. So, no protection and with someone you're more than likely to not know, and who doesn't mind f'ing PP out of their cut... Why stick around? :)
 
Jaxx said:
Because it is unethical to suggest acceptance by F&F at all.. Whether you like it or not, PayPal provides a service. After years of bitching @ PP, they finally provide a free option to donate to charities and send money to friends & family, and immediately almost everyone started to use it for doing profitable business...then rant when they get screwed using it. I view it as a warning flag, not to mention the loss of buyer/ seller protection through PP. So, no protection and with someone you're more than likely to not know, and who doesn't mind f'ing PP out of their cut... Why stick around? :)
Click to expand...

Interesting. I didn't put much thought into the whole Friends and Family thing apart from theft.

I usually offer both when I sell something but ship with full insurance either way.

I'll only offer and accept G&S now.
 
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