And If You Use The Friends & Family In Paypal For A Purchase Then

[Sled]

Yup I take a picture of the parcel with the shipping information and tracking right on the package as well as the till receipt.

I did this for years....now it is against the rules. No pics allowed.

 

[PeteyTwoPointOne]

I did this for years....now it is against the rules. No pics allowed.

I do it all the time and sellers provided it to me just as recently as yesterday...please explain.

 

[BFS]

I will only pay via G&S. One, for the protection both ways and two, the only way to pay via F&F is to link your bank account to PayPal. No friggin way am I doing that.

A few months ago, I had an empty envelope delivered by the USPS with an outer plastic wrap saying sorry, your package is empty. Notified the maker here. He started an inquiry with the PO, but not with PayPal. He wanted me to wait until it was investigated. Three weeks later and nothing resolved except a email from the postal inspector saying that they have no clue on where the knife is. I filed the PayPal dispute and after another week, the maker refunded.

G&S made both of us whole.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

Because it is unethical to suggest acceptance by F&F at all.. Whether you like it or not, PayPal provides a service. After years of bitching @ PP, they finally provide a free option to donate to charities and send money to friends & family, and immediately almost everyone started to use it for doing profitable business...then rant when they get screwed using it. I view it as a warning flag, not to mention the loss of buyer/ seller protection through PP. So, no protection and with someone you're more than likely to not know, and who doesn't mind f'ing PP out of their cut... Why stick around?

Couldn't have said it better myself! :thumbup:

I did this for years....now it is against the rules. No pics allowed.

Huh???

 

[Bigfattyt]

If you have the option of both, why walk away? I'm not trying to start things, I'm legitimately curious.

Because they are cheating a system designed to add protection to the equation. I am the same. I avoid sellers who ask friends and family. Unless I'm sending a friend or family member money...........

 

[KnifeKnutz]

I agree.

If they add in a posting that F&F will not protect the buyer but save a few percentage then I suppose it is more transparent and gives the option, as someone mentioned, to save a few percentage (but why risk it for a few dollars unless you know the seller well?).

In my first post in this thread, I was referring to using F&F with members with low feedback, not G&S with members with low feedback which in that case should cover both parties. Low feedback shouldn't be much of an issue now that Paypal is doing better at protecting both buyers and sellers.

There may be some old information (and valid at the time) out there about how sellers aren't protected very well by paypal but as other posts have mentioned it has improved over the years and is now at the point where if you ship the item correctly you should be covered (there are rules to follow).

It is off topic but I'm sure lots of busse enthusiasts and new ones (as mentioned already by someone) will benefit if they don't read the stickies where it is covered also.

Do not use F&F unless you are either family or friend to the other party and trust your money/item with them to do as they please

Some people wouldn't even trust some F&Fs with that responsibility

Because it is unethical to suggest acceptance by F&F at all.. Whether you like it or not, PayPal provides a service. After years of bitching @ PP, they finally provide a free option to donate to charities and send money to friends & family, and immediately almost everyone started to use it for doing profitable business...then rant when they get screwed using it. I view it as a warning flag, not to mention the loss of buyer/ seller protection through PP. So, no protection and with someone you're more than likely to not know, and who doesn't mind f'ing PP out of their cut... Why stick around?

 

[David Brown]

A bunch of folk on here I do consider friends and family.

I never ask but some folks do pay me that way.
If asked I say goods please.

with that said also as a business, pay-pal will lock your acct if they even think you are abusing this F&F thing.
Locking your money up.

It has not happened to me but I have heard of it.

So, most of us have mentioned many times how wonderful it is around here and how great the people are but when it comes to PayPal that all goes away? Lol

Not for me. I've had nothing but great transactions here. 100% positive feedback. I don't deal with anyone who seems shady or anyone I don't want to. F&F works great if the two people want to use it. I ship insured to cover my butt.

 

[LukeTheSpook]

So, most of us have mentioned many times how wonderful it is around here and how great the people are but when it comes to PayPal that all goes away? Lol

Not for me. I've had nothing but great transactions here. 100% positive feedback. I don't deal with anyone who seems shady or anyone I don't want to. F&F works great if the two people want to use it. I ship insured to cover my butt.

It dishonest and unethical. You are selling a product, not giving money to a relative. You can call it what you want but you are. Being shady when selling goods and not paying a fee.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

I go with what the seller wants, assuming he is trusted.

 

[Jaxx]

So, most of us have mentioned many times how wonderful it is around here and how great the people are but when it comes to PayPal that all goes away? Lol

Not for me. I've had nothing but great transactions here. 100% positive feedback. I don't deal with anyone who seems shady or anyone I don't want to. F&F works great if the two people want to use it. I ship insured to cover my butt.

Yes. That's right.
Friendship is friendship, business is business.
I've been here for over 10 years, and as a Moderator over 7 years. I've noticed that during my time, there has been a steady slow uptick in f**kery overall in transactions reported in GB&U, and my personal PM's.

Anyone remember DowntownDM? Regular poster here for years, sold 2 knives, never shipped them and disappeared...

Liu Kang? I've heard several horror stories over the years, including a knife that turned into scrap metal shelf rails during transit... :\

One rule above all others... Cover your azz, even in fair deals. I've been burned by folks I considered closer to me than this whole forum, good friends right up to screwing me over, so I say this. Trust is earned. Showing me that grudgingly or not, you are ethical enough to respect PayPal's role in your sales to give them their cut regardless of which side pays the fees goes a long way with me towards trusting you with my cash...because it IS my cash until I receive my goods. This applies to the other side too, where it is MY knife, and my responsibility, until I get it safely & securely into your hands the same way I'd expect to receive it.

 

[legaleagle]

Original poster should post user in GBU. Help protect the community. I guess I am in the minority. I have not had a bad experience, but I am also selective of who I deal with. PP is so anti-gun I have no problem with them not getting a cut. I am more annoyed by people deleting sale prices <another little wang contribution to the board before ban>. To each their own.

 

[gk4ever2]

I have never used PayPal, so please forgive me if this is covered elsewhere. Here are some questions:

1) What happens to a seller when they ship a knife insured, the buyer says they did not receive it so the buyer files a PayPal claim and gets a refund?

2) What if the seller files an insurance claim with the PO and they say it was delivered, so the PO refuses the claim. Is the seller screwed?

3) From what I have heard, PayPal seems to favor the buyer and not the seller. Can a seller file a claim with PayPal?

4) It seems it might be too easy for a dishonest buyer to end up with both the knife and the money - am I wrong about this?

Thanks for your answers!

 

[Ericz]

Thanks good to know from now on I will have to insist goods and services even if it costs more

 

[Azula Gun Holsters]

Happened to us quite a few times Buyer says they did not receive the package but it shows delivered with USPS. We ask the buyer to file a claim with Paypal
As long as we have a tracking number that shows delivered we are covered by Paypal and we do not lose our money.
Paypal covers both the seller and buyer. It is important to have a tracking number as proof of delivery.
We are completely confident that we will not lose our money if we have a tracking number that shows delivery.

As a seller you have to ship to the verified or confirmed address. When you look at the address it will either say confirmed or verified and it will be in green letters. If it is orange letters and says not non verified or non confirmed I would not ship and refund the money as you would not be covered by paypal.
Basically the same as shipping to the billing address for a credit card.

 

[JohnTheTexican]

Whenever I list something for sale, the listing explicitly says I'll cover the PayPal fees (and usually shipping), and I've never asked anyone to use the F&F tab or suggersted that they do so, but still buyers use it maybe a third of the time. I guess they see it as a little lagniappe, but I'd really rather just pay the fee an know that the transactions protected.

 

[Azula Gun Holsters]

Had another chargeback today through paypal. Customer says they did not receive the holster and the tracking shows it was delivered to them.
Can't say for certain if they received the package or not but the chargeback will be handled by paypal and we will be covered as we have the tracking number that shows the package was delivered to their confirmed address.

In contrast if we were using our bank's credit card processor we would probably lose the chargeback as we do not have a signature. Paypal only requires a signature if the value is more than $750. This is a far better value for the seller.

We cancelled our credit card processing through our bank and went 100% with paypal for the seller protection and fraud prevention on orders. Paypal does a much better job protecting us against fraud orders than our bank did. If the order is deemed to be fraud and we shipped to the confirmed or verified address shown on the paypal confirmation them we are covered as well and no loss to us.

Had a customer today ask to send in a money order and we said we prefer paypal instead as we do not want to be responsible if they claim they did not receive the package and it shows delivered. If they paid by money order and they claimed it was not delivered them we would feel obligated to send another package or refund them and we don't need that added pressure.
Paypal has us and the customer covered.

 

[nemesis]

Because it is unethical to suggest acceptance by F&F at all.. Whether you like it or not, PayPal provides a service. After years of bitching @ PP, they finally provide a free option to donate to charities and send money to friends & family, and immediately almost everyone started to use it for doing profitable business...then rant when they get screwed using it. I view it as a warning flag, not to mention the loss of buyer/ seller protection through PP. So, no protection and with someone you're more than likely to not know, and who doesn't mind f'ing PP out of their cut... Why stick around?

I've never thought of it this way but it is logical. I always pay the fee and use goods and services when I'm buying and I consider it to be a red flag when someone will accept friends and family ONLY and I walk away. I have always given the option when I'm the seller under the thought of "if they want to give up the protection to save a few bucks" it's on them but you offer a valid point and I may change my sales posts now.

 

[boring]

How much difference is it if a buyer pays more for g&s or pays f&f and the buyer has to pay a fee anyway?

 

[PeteyTwoPointOne]

How much difference is it if a buyer pays more for g&s or pays f&f and the buyer has to pay a fee anyway?

It is the Seller who has a percentage of the total sale < ca. 3.6% > taken as a fee by PayPal. Buyer never has to pay a fee with G&S OR F&F transfer, providing they have a cash balance. But if you put the purchase on a CC, you usually get a fee applied from your CC company as a buyer. Seller is always assessed the fee when the transaction is recorded as G&S.

By accepting a F&F payment, as a Seller, you receive the total amount of your asking price, less shipping of course.

No two ways around it, it is a bad practice...at its core unethical and unbecoming even the most Hoggish HOG. This thread has likely pricked a few consciences, mine included...good thread.

 

[TormaxGP]

well i prefer g&s , because for me the fee is higher whit f&f, due to f&f is only free if your local curency is the same as the contry you send
money to, i live in Sweden and usually buy from USA, and due to that i have to pay a fee any way.
but i prefer g&s and glady pay for the fee