Andrew Carnegie and Axes

[garry3]

That may be, but if every hour spent painting cost you minimum wage rate, you'd creep up to a higher price pretty darn quick. Plus the paint itself isn't free, so you have to buy that, too. If you already have the colors you want kicking around, great. But that's still money you spent previously and it does need to be factored in when considering total cost. DIY is great, and can definitely save you a lot of money. Awesome. But that's not a valid reason to criticize someone for offering a service to those who don't have the space, equipment, time, materials, know-how...or just inclination to do it themselves. Would I buy one of their expensive painted axes? Nope. I don't care for it enough to warrant the cost on the one hand OR the effort on the other, so I run 'em unpainted since it's just a cosmetic flourish. But I do have to be fair and acknowledge that the cost of the upcharge isn't unreasonable for a professionally done paint job. Labor ain't free.

BS, that is over the top silly and they are obviously using painters tape. Not even well done.
I used to do some pretty fancy stuff with arrows until I got tired of breaking and losing my work. A lot more work goes into one single arrow than them axe handles. See for yourself and they are priced by the dozen.
http://www.nwarchery.com/custom-and-deluxe-wood-arrows-ready-to-go/
And they are making money at it.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Good anthropology there,Ernest!

From axe as subject, used as means to an end, to axe as object, an end in and of itself. Pure historical inevitability.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

BS, that is over the top silly and they are obviously using painters tape. Not even well done.
I used to do some pretty fancy stuff with arrows until I got tired of breaking and losing my work. A lot more work goes into one single arrow than them axe handles. See for yourself and they are priced by the dozen.
http://www.nwarchery.com/custom-and-deluxe-wood-arrows-ready-to-go/
And they are making money at it.

So...don't buy it if you don't want it. Simple as that. The fact that they offer their axes without paint at fair market pricing kind of renders that argument moot, and no one is forcing you to buy a painted axe. Like I said, it's not to my own tastes, either, and wouldn't buy one. But no one is being coerced into buying them painted. It's optional. And apparently lots of folks do opt for it. Not sure why they deserve to be vilified for that. ::shrug::

 

[Square_peg]

That may be, but if every hour spent painting cost you minimum wage rate, you'd creep up to a higher price pretty darn quick.

And no employer pays only minimum wage for an employees efforts. The fully burdened rate for an employee is likely to be more than double their wages. And of course you wouldn't make the effort if you didn't expect to make a profit.

This isn't to say that painted axes are a good deal - I won't be buying any. But their sales price looks to be in line what I would expect their construction costs to be.

 

[garry3]

You guys are grossly over estimating the work, skill and time involved in them painted handle.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think you're missing the point. They're offering a service, and it's up to the market to decide if the painting work is desirable at that price point or not. They offer the axes paint-free at a normal market value, and no one is coerced into spending the money on the painted ones. Evidently they sell well enough that they continue to offer the service at that particular rate. You (and I) are simply not their target market.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

I think you're missing the point. They're offering a service, and it's up to the market to decide if the painting work is desirable at that price point or not. They offer the axes paint-free at a normal market value, and no one is coerced into spending the money on the painted ones. Evidently they sell well enough that they continue to offer the service at that particular rate. You (and I) are simply not their target market.

Yes, and you are, (willfully perhaps), forgetting the part in the 17th century when Dutch oligarchs paid a fortune for tulip bulbs and after the market crashed making soup out of them for dinner. In other words the irrationality factor of the market.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yes, and you are, (willfully perhaps), forgetting the part in the 17th century when Dutch oligarchs paid a fortune for tulip bulbs and after the market crashed making soup out of them for dinner. In other words the irrationality factor of the market.

Your hyperbolic example is nowhere near an analog for offering a service painting axe handles. You may recall that I earlier cited Nordstrom ludicrously selling out of rocks covered with leather, so no, it appears that you are perhaps willfully not examining my statements in full.

 

[garry3]

I think you're missing the point. They're offering a service, and it's up to the market to decide if the painting work is desirable at that price point or not. They offer the axes paint-free at a normal market value, and no one is coerced into spending the money on the painted ones. Evidently they sell well enough that they continue to offer the service at that particular rate. You (and I) are simply not their target market.

Really? The cheapest axe I see on there website is a HB for $228. But ya, the costumers get that BMC stamp rather than the Council tool stamp. The uninitiated and uninformed might think that is a good deal.
https://www.bestmadeco.com/camp-home/knives-axes/axes?search[sort_by]=by_master_price|asc

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Really? The cheapest axe I see on there website is a HB for $228. But ya, the costumers get that BMC stamp rather than the Council tool stamp. The uninitiated and uninformed might think that is a good deal.
https://www.bestmadeco.com/camp-home/knives-axes/axes?search[sort_by]=by_master_price|asc

They make their own masks for them rather than the factory ones, also, and they're the Velvicut models, not base line ones. To my understanding they also haft them in-house using a different approach, as well, which you can see if you examine the BM handles vs. stock Velvicut. Again, though, it's just one of many market offerings and you and I aren't their target market. If you don't want the combination of features don't buy that model. I wouldn't even buy the Velvicuts, personally. The Sport Utility line is more my kind of thing.

 

[Fmont]

$100 upcharge from their non painted handle for this:



Sometimes pictures are worth a thousand words. What is the value proposition? It's the brand. A success in advertising. Good for them? Is good marketing good for the consumer?

If someone says to me, "Fmont, I want a pretty axe, where do I get one?" What do I say? "Well you can get this axe here for $200 and spend 5 minutes dipping it into two different colors of paint. Or you can get the same axe for $400 and somebody will have already done the dipping." When framed in that light will the consumer feel the same way? That is to say, with minimal education will the consumer be willing to pay the rather significant up charge?

The reason I say fleecing is because they are exploiting consumer ignorance without bringing any real value to the table.

It's not actually a big deal. It's a rampant practice that is not new. But I don't really like any of it. It's not illegal, it's not even unethical by business standards. But it represents a poor value, and an informed consumer would quickly realize that. And I think we are all on that same page where we recognize the value as superficial. We're just looking at it with varying levels of dubiousness.

But look. Open up Amazon and look for a product. These days you can find the exact same product listed a dozen different ways with two dozen different brands charging three dozen different prices. Some consumers are going to buy the most expensive option without 2 seconds of digging. It's all the same thing.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I mean, there's even competitors out there that were led to adopt the same service. I think just about everyone buying them with the painted handles understands that it's a prestige thing. I don't like that personally, but for folks with money to spend on indulgences like that...they probably don't bat an eye at it. They're far from the only name in the game for folks looking for value. Best Made in general is not a company that you go to for value purchases. They're a prestige boutique for people who want fancy stuff, so of course they're going to charge accordingly. And it's seemingly working well for them, so at least some of that money is going into Council's pocket and supports their ongoing business. I'm not going to begrudge anyone spending their money the way they see fit, but it's definitely inconsistent with my own personal disposition on best spending practices. But I'm a value buyer, not a prestige buyer. Again, not their market sector. So they kind of don't care what we think for the most part because they're not going to get any money from us.

 

[garry3]

$100 upcharge from their non painted handle for this:

View attachment 1253154

Sometimes pictures are worth a thousand words. What is the value proposition? It's the brand. A success in advertising. Good for them? Is good marketing good for the consumer?

If someone says to me, "Fmont, I want a pretty axe, where do I get one?" What do I say? "Well you can get this axe here for $200 and spend 5 minutes dipping it into two different colors of paint. Or you can get the same axe for $400 and somebody will have already done the dipping." When framed in that light will the consumer feel the same way? That is to say, with minimal education will the consumer be willing to pay the rather significant up charge?

The reason I say fleecing is because they are exploiting consumer ignorance without bringing any real value to the table.

It's not actually a big deal. It's a rampant practice that is not new. But I don't really like any of it. It's not illegal, it's not even unethical by business standards. But it represents a poor value, and an informed consumer would quickly realize that. And I think we are all on that same page where we recognize the value as superficial. We're just looking at it with varying levels of dubiousness.

But look. Open up Amazon and look for a product. These days you can find the exact same product listed a dozen different ways with two dozen different brands charging three dozen different prices. Some consumers are going to buy the most expensive option without 2 seconds of digging. It's all the same thing.

Dubiousness sums it up pretty well. I feel about the same way when I shop on line and think I have found a good deal only to realize at check out that they are more then making up for their lower sticker prices by charging more to ship. I choose not to do business with those types.