Another Belgian Clasp Knife

[Jack Black]

Don't think so. There was obligatory military service/conscription until early nineties if I'm not mistaken, and these pocket knives were unissued early sixties, in the middle of the babyboom. I think that this combination of facts would have led to an increase in new soldiers at the time...

Yes military service went on until quite recently I believe (for me, the 90's is recent ). What I was thinking was a reduction in troop number after WW2 and also the decline in Belgian interests in Africa in the 1950's and 60's. Of course this may have nothing whatsoever to do with it!

My dad, who was in the army in the early seventies, never saw these pocket knives and they have never been issued anything else but their bayonet/dagger. No folding knives at all, he said.

When my father did his British national service in the 1950's, I think they got issued with very little indeed, certainly not a nice clasp knife

 

[puukkoman]

Jack, this one looks like it's got a sail-cutter as well, rather than just a plain can opener.... The inner hook part of that tool appears sharpened, which would have been used by a mariner to quickly & safely make long cuts through sailcloth.
Cool knife, thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

 

[lambertiana]

I kick myself for not taking advantage of a chance a few years ago to pick one of these up really cheap. They look like sturdy folders. And the marlin spike is very handy for many things.

 

[Campbellclanman]

I agree with lambertiana, the Marlin Spikes are extremely handy, I have one on my Carl Schlieper....and I use it a lot.
Jack, that is one VERY sturdy, handy looking knife!!, check your e-mails my friend..

 

[freezergeezer]

Jack, my Dad did his national service in the 50's & was issued with one of these. However, he was R.E. so that may have had a bearing on the issued / not issued question?
Australia also used this pattern, and a small number were made here.
I understand that India had them as well.
Belgium & Italy are new ones on me. I wonder how many countries ended up using that same pattern?

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

Jack, my Dad did his national service in the 50's & was issued with one of these. However, he was R.E. so that may have had a bearing on the issued / not issued question?
Australia also used this pattern, and a small number were made here.
I understand that India had them as well.
Belgium & Italy are new ones on me. I wonder how many countries ended up using that same pattern?

I think they were rather popular. If I'm not mistaken, they were based on pre-WW2 British army knives. I could be wrong though.

 

[freezergeezer]

You're correct. I think it was Smiling Knife who posted a thread on British Blades about their history & development. Iirc from reading that, the basic pattern dates from the 1800's.

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

That's even further back in time than I had imagined. Nice to know a bit more on the history of these lil' buggers!
I carry one of mine quite often, great thing and indeed: built like a tank.

 

[screened porch]

So Jack, is the British army clasp knife the same as the navy knife? I always assumed if it had a marline spike it was for sailors.

Somewhere I have a large handful of these I got from a catalogue as British navy surplus. ("Dear friend, I'm glad you love history as much as I do! Every broken blade on your knife represents a frustrating event in the past...")
I sorted out the ones most worth reviving and then misplaced them all.

 

[smiling-knife]

That particular pattern of British Army knife dates to WWII or just before. The bottle opener on the can opener attachment was added in 1945. The previous British Army pattern 1905-1939 was longer, with a spear blade and a short pointed can opener blade.

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

I always assumed if it had a marline spike it was for sailors.

Apparently, this isn't always the case. I think it would depend on the type, or in the case of the Belgian knives: the stamps.
Anything stamped ABL stands for: Armée belge-Belgisch leger. That would be "Belgian army", first in French, then in Dutch.
The ones from tha navy have an anchor stamped on the bottom of the blade and read: ZM - FN which stands for: 'zeemacht' - 'force naval', or in English: naval forces (first one's in Dutch, second one in French).

The marlin spike on these blades is really thick, and could easily serve as a weapon since the backsprings are so tight.
I've used them to punch holes in many cans. To make a hole for the canopener, it works like a charm. The canopener could do it too, but it's more fun this way

 

[Jack Black]

Sorry for my inattention to this thread fellers. I've got guests staying so I've been having to look after them (they're currently recovering from hangovers). Also the weather here seems to be playing havoc with my internet connection today.

Jack, this one looks like it's got a sail-cutter as well, rather than just a plain can opener.... The inner hook part of that tool appears sharpened, which would have been used by a mariner to quickly & safely make long cuts through sailcloth.
Cool knife, thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

Interesting idea my friend. This is actually based on the British Army pattern. The Navy-issue knife is similiar, but larger, and lacks the can-opener (which makes the blade considerably easy to open).

I kick myself for not taking advantage of a chance a few years ago to pick one of these up really cheap. They look like sturdy folders. And the marlin spike is very handy for many things.

I agree with lambertiana, the Marlin Spikes are extremely handy, I have one on my Carl Schlieper....and I use it a lot.
Jack, that is one VERY sturdy, handy looking knife!!

I had a British one as a kid, and it really got used for everything, they're one heck of a tough knife.

Jack, my Dad did his national service in the 50's & was issued with one of these. However, he was R.E.

Yes, my dad was a tank radio operator with the R.A. and R.H.A. so perhaps there wasn't much reason to issue him with one.

I think they were rather popular. If I'm not mistaken, they were based on pre-WW2 British army knives. I could be wrong though.

You're correct. I think it was Smiling Knife who posted a thread on British Blades about their history & development.

Yes, Smiling Knife's article is a 'must read' for anyone interested in these knives I think. As he says, the British pattern dates to 1939, with the bottle-opener being added in 1945. I'll post pics of my 1939 Sheffield-made model ASAP.

So Jack, is the British army clasp knife the same as the navy knife? I always assumed if it had a marline spike it was for sailors.

The British navy-issue knife is slightly larger and doesn't have the can-opener. I posted about this knife recently in Carl's forum. I had one as a kid also, and it's the only knife I've ever actually lost Great knife though.

That particular pattern of British Army knife dates to WWII or just before. The bottle opener on the can opener attachment was added in 1945. The previous British Army pattern 1905-1939 was longer, with a spear blade and a short pointed can opener blade.

Thanks for all your info on these knives S-K :thumbup:

 

[smiling-knife]

I hope I am not digressing from the original topic too much. As the the discussion includes the British Navy knife, I thought I would post this WWII example. As Jack mentioned, it does not include the can opener and it is larger than the WWII Army knife. The checkered metal alloy scales are much more robust than the synthetic Bexoid scales on the Army knife. Both knives had an integral slot-head screwdriver but at opposite ends. The WWII Navy knives did not include the Broad arrow mark but were stamped with the year of issue like the Army knives.

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks for posting this S-K. I hadn't seen one of these knives for years before the other week, but since then they've kept cropping up

 

[TomcatPC]

I have two of the Belgian Clasp Knives lurking about. I also have a British WWII dated knife, 1942 made by Sheffield Steel Products (SSP), and a Post-WWII (I think?) Canadian Clasp Knife, also have what I think is a Post-Independence (1947-1948?) Indian made Clasp Knife.
Mark

Here is the India made (I think?) knife.

This is what I think is a Post-WWII Canadian made knife.

 

[TomcatPC]

Here is the WWII British Knife, Sheffield Steel Products (SSP) 1942.
Mark

 

[kamagong]

Here's one that I picked up for a pittance.

It's not a Colasse or an Anton Winand. I wish I knew who made it, but I'm pretty certain it's a Belgian clasp knife because its stampings include both A.B.L. and 1951.

It's a stout old knife. I probably should've left well enough alone, but I didn't like the feeling of the shrunken scales and I really don't like synthetic. It's off getting rehandled in ebony. I'll post up updated pics when I get it back.

- Christian

 

[neeman]

I have my uncle's issued clasp knife
He was in the Royal Engineers doing National Service in the late 50s

He gave it to me when I was in the CCF (OTC) in School in the late 60s
And I used it when in the field

 

[Jack Black]

It's off getting rehandled in ebony. I'll post up updated pics when I get it back.

- Christian

That sounds interesting Christian, look forward to seeing the pics.

I sent the knife pictured in the OP to Vanguard's son, but I've had (and given away) a few of these knives. They're great work-horses and an interesting piece of history. Here's the one I had with me yesterday.



And a 1939 British Army clasp knife made by Wraggs of Sheffield