Another ceramic stone question: Fallkniven

A while ago I had a Spyderco medium stone. I sold it. I liked it. And I liked it not.
The stone made a great edge sharp enough for many tasks. But it was also slow cutting. I used it wrong because I believed in the term "medium".

Fallkniven - the DC4 to be more precise - gave me a great edge, too. But was faster cutting. Even a dull edge could be sharpened in a reasonable amount of time whith just the ceramic whereas the 302M needed much longer. Fallkniven is a sharpening stone, Spyderco medium rather a finishing stone. It worked best when I used a 1.000 grit stone before the 302M.

What I don't like about Fallkniven ceramics is the inconsistent grit. Very coarse when new, and you don't know how fine it will get (every stone tends to be unique). Spyderco Medium is much more consistent.

The other disadvantage is that Fallkniven seems to wear more than Spyderco Medium. And - as you mentioned - is more delicate, more brittle.

That makes me think about buying another 302M.
On the other hand I like the DC521. My experience is the same: removes enough metal and gives a razor sharp edge.
The ceramic is more or less a two-in-one-stone.
As the stone is expensive it should last a lifetime (I am not a pro who sharpens knives all day long). But I don't think it will be a stone for life. Spyderco's ceramic seems to be harder and longer lasting.
 
I have a couple of DC3s and I agree that they're inconsistent, that they go through a breaking in period, and also that they're more prone to chipping. The DC4 and DC3 are also known to split apart because the diamond plate is just glued on and people have reported that sometimes it will come unglued. I guess maybe in some cases whatever adhesive they used didn't penetrate far enough into the ceramic side to hold the metal plate on securely. The Spyderco doublestuff, which is just two different ceramic stones glued back to back, might also have the same issue, but I haven't ever heard of that happening.

I would say that the DC3 or DC4 are both something you would want to take with you outdoors for heavier use cases, and the spydercos are better for general EDC when you just need to do regular touch ups as you use your knife for light day to day stuff.
 
My DC4 did have the diamond plate separate from the ceramic. This happened immediately after I'd sprayed the diamond side with a little bit of Windex to clean it. Whatever type of glue Fallkniven used to put it together didn't seem to hold up to the Windex. If I recall, the remnants of the glue seemed kind of rubbery or elastic after the Windex got to it, so I'm not sure what that implies about the type of glue they used. But no worries. I used two-part epoxy to put them back together, after cleaning the mating surfaces with acetone. I'm fairly confident that'll keep it from coming apart again.

I have a couple of Spyderco DoubleStuff hones as well. Whatever they used to put them together seems to be rock solid and impervious to anything I've used to lubricate or clean them. I'd bet they epoxied them, but I really don't know.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
My DC4 did have the diamond plate separate from the ceramic. This happened immediately after I'd sprayed the diamond side with a little bit of Windex to clean it. Whatever type of glue Fallkniven used to put it together didn't seem to hold up to the Windex. If I recall, the remnants of the glue seemed kind of rubbery or elastic after the Windex got to it, so I'm not sure what that implies about the type of glue they used. But no worries. I used two-part epoxy to put them back together, after cleaning the mating surfaces with acetone. I'm fairly confident that'll keep it from coming apart again.
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Thanks for pointing this out. I seem to recall having read something similar about spray cleaner being potentially responsible for dissolving the glue, but I completely forgot about it. It sounds plausible.

Do you remember the specific brand of epoxy that you used?
 
Guy McVer said:
Thanks for pointing this out. I seem to recall having read something similar about spray cleaner being potentially responsible for dissolving the glue, but I completely forgot about it. It sounds plausible.

Do you remember the specific brand of epoxy that you used?
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The epoxy was likely the Gorilla Glue brand. That's mostly what I've used, the few times I've needed epoxy. I think most any of the reputable brands of two-part epoxy should work fine though. It's usually pretty hard to go wrong with epoxy.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
If you're able to build up a slurry with it it makes me suspect it may not actually be sintered and may just be a dense hard-bond vitrified stone. I've never once seen a true sintered stone develop a slurry.
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I can confirm this, the FK ceramics kind of reminds me of brick stones used for building. The spyderco medium ceramics are way more dense.
 
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These Sharpmaker mediums were my first decent sharpening tool, purchased in the mid- to late 80's. They got a fair amount of use for about a decade, but they were not abused or used with heavy pressure. They were retired long before I moved beyond 1095 and ATS-34 or so. They never saw super steels.

You can clearly see where they are dished in the center, as compared to the ends where the corner is still fairly sharp.

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These stones are nowhere near flat anymore, on the edges. This was not operator error, I understood about using light pressure from a young age. That is honest wear.

They wear slowly.
 
Glad I have the Spyderco stones I want already. I have the medium and fine bench stones, a medium and fine pocket stone with the suede sheath, the 1x3 pocket stone in medium, and the Sharpmaker with medium and fine rods. Maybe because sharpening isn't a hobby, my goal is always just a good working edge, and I have very few super steel knives (a couple of s30v and one D2 if those are even considered in that class), I've seen no wear on any of these stones. I do clean them from time to time. All are at least 10ish years old. Pretty much all I use save for the Victorinox Dual Sharpener which is a variation of the same material. I do have a couple of diamond bench stones but almost never use them as they are designed for heavier tasks than I normally have needed.
 
CSG said:
I have the Spyderco stones I want already. I have the medium and fine bench stones, a medium and fine pocket stone with the suede sheath, the 1x3 pocket stone in medium, and the Sharpmaker with medium and fine rods.
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CSG said:
my goal is always just a good working edge, and I have very few super steel knives (a couple of s30v and one D2 if those are even considered in that class), I've seen no wear on any of these stones.
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I have a lot of swiss army knives and a lot of other knives and multitools made from cheap budget steel. I find that the brown Spyderco medium ceramic by itself is perfect for keeping a good working edge on them all. With nothing more than the brown stone, you can easily achieve an edge that does whisper clean cuts through thin magazine pages. That's why I carry one on the daily, and I will probably break it by dropping it long before it has a chance to get worn down. If and when I do finally break the thing, I already have a few spares lined up and ready to go.
 
Khromo said:
You can clearly see where they are dished in the center, as compared to the ends where the corner is still fairly sharp.


These stones are nowhere near flat anymore, on the edges. This was not operator error, I understood about using light pressure from a young age. That is honest wear.

They wear slowly.
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Thank you very much. The pressure o the edges is higher as on the flats so I am not surprised that they wear on the edges first.
 
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