Another Knife Question !

G'day Pit

pitdog said:
Here is a new knife that Mark Wohlwend has just made. What are ya seeing, Camp Knife, Bushcraft knife or Survival knife ?

5 inch blade of 1095, thickness 3/16th....
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Before I even though about using it to drill with, I'd take something to the squared off end at the but of the handle.

Since I hadn't heard of the term Camp knife before discovering the net, I don't reckon I can comment on what type of knife would best fit this description.

Still trying to get my head around the criteria/situations that are used to describe a Survival knife :confused:

From a Bushcraft perspective, it certainly looks capable of working with wood :thumbup:

IMO, whether or not it could be used for all three is also going to depend on the skill level & experience of the user. :thumbup:





Kind regards
Mick
 
pitdog said:
Another factor to take into account is the type of grind.......As it has such a wide 3/16" blade with a full flat grind the actual edge is pretty much as thin as many 1/8" stock bushcraft type blades.
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Good point Pitdog, one of the advantages of the full flat (can also be had with an aggressive convex) grind profile. Its also why you don't really see wide scandi blades since a very wide blade runs counter to the advantages of a scandi profile. Hence, scandi's tend to be much less diverse in their form. Albeit, I've come to appreciate their qualities much more now than I used to.

mistwalker said:
Very seldom do I see lateral strength and a stout tip as being primary factors in a "camp" knife, and...never do I see fine, chef quality, slicing ability as a primary factor in a "survival" knife.

In "camp" stew you slice and dice the meat and veggies as you chit chat merrily around the fire. In "survival" stew you chunk some stuff....cut, torn, broken, or pounded... into whatever pot you have and get it cooking :D
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Nicely put Mistwalker! I've been known to pack my 10" chef knife along for picnics. Despite my love for outdoor knives, nothing seems to actually compare in their ability to process veggies like a traditional chef's knife. Though not sure if I actually use the point on my chef knife all that much. Last night, I just watched a youtube vid of Les Stroud (Urban Survival - flood) use a chef blade to baton through the leg of a kitchen chair to get to dry wood and start a fire in his water filled kitchen. It behaved as I expected, cutting the wood with ease. Something I gladly do with my Old Hickory butcher but am reserved when it comes to my Henckels.
 
my old grohman#1 was my go to camp knife for years. Good kitchen knife.

My camping box now has a cold steel longhunter that has been great for food prep, pretty good 15$ chef's knife.
 
kgd said:
Nicely put Mistwalker! I've been known to pack my 10" chef knife along for picnics. Despite my love for outdoor knives, nothing seems to actually compare in their ability to process veggies like a traditional chef's knife. Though not sure if I actually use the point on my chef knife all that much. Last night, I just watched a youtube vid of Les Stroud (Urban Survival - flood) use a chef blade to baton through the leg of a kitchen chair to get to dry wood and start a fire in his water filled kitchen. It behaved as I expected, cutting the wood with ease. Something I gladly do with my Old Hickory butcher but am reserved when it comes to my Henckels.
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Thanks Ken, I thought it summed it up pretty well :)

We always had an assortment of Old Hickory knives in camp back in my commercial fishing and trapping days...a long time ago. They were great around camp, but I carried a much stouter bladed knife to the field.
 
I would suggest that before we can define the differnce between a Camp versus Survival knife we must first define the meaning of Camp and Survival.

Why don't we start with a list of tasks that are most likely to be performed in a Camp then do the same for a Survival situation then compare the two.

Thoughts?

-Stan
 
Good point Stanley,

However, the list of tasks for survival reads something like - 'whatever needs to get done'. But then there are folks who will chime in about all the things they wouldn't use their survival knife for. The tricky part about pre-dreaming up scenarios for survival situations are that they are random occurrences in uncontrolled environments. Best you can do is strategize physiological needs/priorites: Air (more occurpational orientated), injury, thermoregulation, clean water, food and finally finding the safety in numbers i.e. getting back to society/home/family.

The means to those ends vary depending on circumstances and available tools/resources but translate into detection/escape from enclosure, first aid/medication, shelter building/fire/clothing, locating water/filtration/disinfection/purification, harvesting/foraging/trap setting/hunting finally signaling/navigation/transportation to find your way home.

The survival knife could be potentially used in any of the above activities as limited only by the creativity of the user. Some knives are better at some things then other knives. Which will be the priority you have to address with a knife first and do you have the right knife for that task? I think it is a guessing game and will always be.

Most people default to what they envision as an all-rounder blade which can be argued as a compromise on everything! This lends itself to 'A survival knife is the one you have with you' group. This mantra is repeated often and sometimes even considered a cliche at times. I think it is a good working philosophy. You can't control when, where and how a survival situation will occur. You can control that you have a modicum of preparation beforehand in terms of skills and tools, the knife being always on your person is a good start. So, while I can expound on properties of a Kabar or ESEE-6 for a survival situation, 85% of my time involves being in an urban/suburban environment. A SAK/Izula or small neck knife is the blade that will be on my person. I probably should re-think my aversion to a multi-tool come to think of it...

But Pitdog anticipating the above set-up the scenario of it being an outdoors situation. Again, we go to the wilderness for a variety of reasons to engage in a variety of activities. The scenarios we find ourselves in a survival situation are perhaps more limited. Chances are wood processing will be involved (shelter/fire/traps/signalling) and fire (thermoregulation/signalling/water disinfection/food/flushing out prey) will be involved. I'm still not sure that really goes all that far in narrowing down the optimal knife. The big knife folks swear a big knife can do everything a small knife can do and more. The small knife folks swear that you can find work arounds or alternative strategies to the small blades limitations with the advantage of conserving energy and retaining the philosophy of the knife is always on my person. I'm probably not going to take a 10" chopper with me to the crapper, but how many folks find themselves lost engaging in just such an activity after dumping their pack and its contents trailside?

I stated earlier that my preferences were for a stout 4" blade like my ESEE4 or B. Andrews bushcrafter as a survival knife reflecting my biases to priorities and anticipated constant carry. Yet that is an artificial constraint of carrying 1 knife and trying to define a survival knife per se. The reality is my preference is a small/mid-size knife combination and that is what I will prefer to take into the wood when my outdoor adventure involves more than a 2-3 h walk. I also stated earlier that I viewed a 'camp knife' as a mid-sized blade that is paired with a smaller sharp blade. Really, this combination is the one I have with me and the combination of tools along with my PSK, FAK, back pack, water bottle/mess kit reflects my survival tool kit. In the end, I have to violate Pitdogs rules set out in his OP. I guess I change my mind and say that the camp knife(s) and survival knife are the same.
 
I can appreciate the above answers that draw a distinction between the 'one knife' idea and the 'useful around camp' idea. Makes sense.

But I tend not to go on camping trips where I have the space in my pack to carry an extra 'around the camp only' knife, in addition to my belt knife. So, for me, my survival knife tends to be my camp knife, and vice versa.

All the best,

- Mike
 
For me the difference is in the tasks I may have to do and how much I will have to rely on it. Survival means life on the line, camp knife means camping or enjoying leisure in the wilds.

A survival knife I'm going to literally be relying on it to save my life. Therefore I have to get a knife that will not fail, or even give me the feeling that it may fail (no matter what ludicrous tasks I may set it). A camp knife I can afford to fail as I'll just walk home or not do the task I had wanted to do.

The second part is the tasks each knife may have to do. A camp knife will be for just that, camping/bushcrafting etc. A survival knife may have to be used as a weapon. I'm not going Rambo on this but there may be a need to kill a large predator or other human. Again that's part of the difference between survival and camp for me anyway.
 
stanley_white said:
I would suggest that before we can define the differnce between a Camp versus Survival knife we must first define the meaning of Camp and Survival.

-Stan
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This would make it clearer for me. Are we talking packing in or driving in? "Camp" as in a weekend camping trip, a week long family vacation camping trip, or a longer term hunting and fishing camp? For short term my "survival" knife is my camp knife, but in longer term not so. When I was a kid and into my early teens my family fished and trapped commercially. We would set up camps that would last anywhere from 2 to 3 weeks to 2 to 3 months. We had a few different butcher knives and fillet knives in camp, but I carried a heavier bladed Old Timer "Woodsman" model on my person at all times, and in later years usually had the Western W-49 in my boat when out.
 
These were all the knives entered in the Camp Knife Challenge that we had. Would you immediately think of all these as Camp Knives or would some of these fall into your interpretations of what a survival knife might look like or even a Bushcraft knife ?

Once again there are no right or wrong answers here, we all have our own ideas, I just like to see how other people view things !

Let me start by saying that the entry by Dan Koster was probably my 2nd favourite out of the whole group but to me I'd think it more of a survival knife than a camp knife, obviously they can all fill dual roles but I'm just going by how I envisage a certain knife to look !

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Personally from this perspective I see the ones designed with a good deal of food prep in mind as being better camp knives than the others, but I see some of the others being more my choice of a field or survival knife depending on the thickness.
 
They are more survival knives to me than Camp Knives

But there is a LOT of Crossover
 
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The S-curve IS my primary camp knife, although it would act as a survival knife without a doubt. Still prefer carving my hearth notches with a little blade though. Don't have full feeling in my left index knuckle anymore :o
 
for me, a survival knife, one that I would depend on in a time of crisis, might well be orientated more toward defense, than making feather sticks.
 
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