Another military question...

T

termiteslayer

Joined
Dec 18, 2009
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So it's coming out with the RIL, as many probably know.
Sure, it makes it 'better', but is there a performance difference in the long run?
Is it easier to break (can't really think of anything I'd do to break it) the current Millie?
I guess I'm asking if the RIL is even needed.
Any complaints about the current setup?
What, specifically, would make the guy who treats his knives well need the RIL?
Probably another dumb question, but I'll just get it out of the way in hopes of learning something a bit quicker than I normally would.
Thanks.
 
It's just another option. If you notice Strider, Hinderer, CRK, all use Ti framelocks. These are refered to as RIL (Reeve Integral Lock), Thanks to Chris Reeve we have this as another option to liner lock, bolt action lock, BB Lock, CBB Lock, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Reeve
I would venture to guess it makes the knife more collectible and more enjoyable to the user/owner. It's good to have choices, especially a luxurious and tough one like this.
 
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The RIL military isn’t really what I would recommend for your first military.

Once you’ve fallen in love with the design however you’ll find yourself lusting after it.
 
termiteslayer said:
I'm curious why you wouldn't recommend it.
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Its not exactly an "entry level" military.. You aren't going to buy a ferrari as your first car. I say buy a plain s30v and black millie and see how you like it; it's obvious you're lusting after a military, so I say go for that one. If you like it, go buy a bunch more like me! :thumbup:
 
Heiheit said:
Its not exactly an "entry level" military.. You aren't going to buy a ferrari as your first car. I say buy a plain s30v and black millie and see how you like it; it's obvious you're lusting after a military, so I say go for that one. If you like it, go buy a bunch more like me! :thumbup:
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I'd have to disagree with this. The RiL Military was my first Military and it is everything I could ever ask for. Maybe I should pick up a regular one and see what the difference is. I don't mean to start an argument, but I don't see why you wouldn't want one of these as your first. Care to explain?

To answer the OP, I didn't really have to break in my Military. All I did was disassemble, clean, lube, and put it back together. That was enough to get mine super slick and open faster than lightning.
 
al3xd4gr34t said:
I'd have to disagree with this. The RiL Military was my first Military and it is everything I could ever ask for. Maybe I should pick up a regular one and see what the difference is. I don't mean to start an argument, but I don't see why you wouldn't want one of these as your first. Care to explain?
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Don't worry about it. I'm not sure if the OP has ever had a Spyderco before; a g-10 military is expensive, but a ti military is a lot more expensive. What happens if he hates the ti military? That's a big chunk of money (for most of us.) If he or anyone else wants to get one, then by all means do so because it's an awesome knife. I just think he should start off a little less expensive is all. Btw, the g-10 military is also a favorite of mine, you should pick yourself one up.
 
I found an old police in the dirt years ago, tried to clean it up and found that it was a pretty decent knife.
A while back I got a Cali 3 and liked it better than the police simply because it was much smoother (wasn't mashed into the ground for years, probably), though I was disappointed that there was a bit of blade wiggling.
It definitely wasn't as solid as others had claimed on the cali 3 reviews. The lockup flexed quite a bit without much pressure - not solid, but a nice knife.
I'm just wondering if the military has the same kind of looseness in the locked position. I do realize that it's different locking mechanisms, but what appeared solid to others clearly wasn't solid to me.
My old Kershaw blue mountain won't flex in the locked position even after 15 years of use.
I recently got a small seb 21 and its lockup is solid.
I'm wondering how solid the millie is in the locked position compared to my blue mountain and seb 21.
Just fishing for opinions from those who know more than I.
Thanks for any opinions that were offered and any more that might come.
 
Heiheit said:
Don't worry about it. I'm not sure if the OP has ever had a Spyderco before; a g-10 military is expensive, but a ti military is a lot more expensive. What happens if he hates the ti military? That's a big chunk of money (for most of us.) If he or anyone else wants to get one, then by all means do so because it's an awesome knife. I just think he should start off a little less expensive is all. Btw, the g-10 military is also a favorite of mine, you should pick yourself one up.
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Ahh well that makes sense. It should be noted, however, that even if the OP doesn't like the Ti Military he can sell it for the same cost or almost the same cost as he picked it up for. You do make a good point, though.
 
I'm one of those who believes a standard G10 Black or Orange Military should be one's first Military. It may possibly be the only Military you will ever need for years.

I've had a half dozen or so Militaries over the recent years and the Ti is not my favorite by any stretch. It's a tank and it's big and it's metallic but the epitome of a Military is a good old standard issue or one of the CF scaled Sprints from the past. For the money, the best overall Military ever made so far is probably the CF S90V but the CF BG-42 is a nice contender.

I'm not discouraging anyone from getting one though. I have one myself but could very well sell it. We'll see. One can pretty much have a Black AND Orange G-10 S30V model for one Ti, two for one.
 
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termiteslayer said:
I found an old police in the dirt years ago, tried to clean it up and found that it was a pretty decent knife.
A while back I got a Cali 3 and liked it better than the police simply because it was much smoother (wasn't mashed into the ground for years, probably), though I was disappointed that there was a bit of blade wiggling.
It definitely wasn't as solid as others had claimed on the cali 3 reviews. The lockup flexed quite a bit without much pressure - not solid, but a nice knife.
I'm just wondering if the military has the same kind of looseness in the locked position. I do realize that it's different locking mechanisms, but what appeared solid to others clearly wasn't solid to me.
My old Kershaw blue mountain won't flex in the locked position even after 15 years of use.
I recently got a small seb 21 and its lockup is solid.
I'm wondering how solid the millie is in the locked position compared to my blue mountain and seb 21.
Just fishing for opinions from those who know more than I.
Thanks for any opinions that were offered and any more that might come.
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None of my military's have any wiggle (i have 5, 1 being the RIL) they lock up very tight and are extremely smooth. My caly 3 has slight up and down play, but that is to be expected with a lockback. I think you'll enjoy any military you buy.
 
Yeah, I assumed it's a pretty good build from all of the praise it's gotten.
The police I found in the dirt is a lock back and it's pretty solid. No up and down with very slight side to side play.
I guess I was expecting about the same in the cali 3 and was unsure if quality control may vary depending on where the knife is made.
It is impressive to see so many diehard spydie fans with complaints being few and far between.
All this military praise, maybe I'll get one.
Payday is coming soon...
 
In answer to your original question, the biggest reason for the TiRIL Military is to serve the customers who have been asking for just that for about the last ten years. Many people feel that the exposed lockbar of the Reeve Integral Lock is more reliable, since gorilla gripping the knife results in the hand squeezing the lockbar into better engagement, making accidental release much less likely. Whether that is true or false doesn't matter at all to me. That exposed lockbar bugs the crap out of me. I hate having moving parts under my fingertips when I'm opening a knife, maybe because I've been bitten by a lot of moving parts over the years.

Is it stronger? I recall Sal posting that it is engineered to the same breaking strength as the regular steel linered Military. Will it last longer? I doubt it. Titanium wears faster than steel, meaning it will probably have a shorter service life overall. Is it more comfortable to use? Don't make me laugh. While it isn't as slick as the stainless handled knives, it doesn't offer the traction of the G-10 or CF versions, the metal handles conduct heat much better, making the handle feel hotter or colder depending on ambient temperature, and it weighs a lot more, sacrificing the "forget it's there" carryability of the regular Military.

So why are people crazy about titanium framelock knives? Personally, I think "crazy" describes it quite nicely, but to each his own.
 
Well similar questions entered my mind and I decided on a G10 S30V mil, I've no doubt the TiRil Military is nice knife and the build quality and f&f will be better then the G10 (polished blade etc) but I wanted a user rather then a safe queen, as it is I have Regular Seb and I find myself babying it more then my Paramilitary which is my primary EDC folder, and the main reason for that is because the Seb cost so much more, I really do Think Twice Cut Once with that knife vs my Paramili! To me the TiRil Military is more of a collectors item, sure it can be a "user" but I don't think it offers any significant advantage over the G10 steel liner version of the mil and it's ~2 oz heavier. I ordered the regular G10 cos well I really like my Paramili I figured I'd get the large version of it for completeness sake.
 
While we're on the subject, would someone in the know explain the general advantages and disadvantages between steel and titanium? And then how those differences translate in knife usages?
 
termiteslayer said:
So it's coming out with the RIL, as many probably know.
Sure, it makes it 'better', but is there a performance difference in the long run?
Is it easier to break (can't really think of anything I'd do to break it) the current Millie?
I guess I'm asking if the RIL is even needed.
Any complaints about the current setup?
What, specifically, would make the guy who treats his knives well need the RIL?
Probably another dumb question, but I'll just get it out of the way in hopes of learning something a bit quicker than I normally would.
Thanks.
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Because it's just so COOL!
The Liner Lock Military is actually stronger than some of the Ti RIL's out there that are ground too thin at the flex point. The only practical reason for using a RIL is extra reliability, not overall strength. Since this is the Mili we're talking about, that point is a little less applicable.
The only time I've really had trouble with a liner lock was when I lent out my Mili for someone to cut bailer twine out of the snow. The lock came back packed and the knife wouldn't close. Not a huge problem, it could be called a security feature. Nevertheless it wouldn't have happened with a RIL.

Edit: I guess "easy to clean" would be the biggest reason for me to buy the RIL version.
 
I like how the titanium looks, but the g10 or cf feel better in my hand IMO. The titanium is nice as a premium feature, but I don't see it being woth the extra money as far as straight practicality goes, especially if you plan to put it to work
 
The Ti Military looks pretty sexy, however I have come to the conclusion that I will definitely never get one. However, I DO plan on getting another plain with a G-10 handle.
The decision comes down to ergonomics. I feel like I am in the minority here, as everyone crows about the Military's fantastic ergonomics. For me there was something not quite right, and it caused me to almost sell mine off to someone else.

I absolutely love the blade, though. And it was the sweep and point on that gorgeous blade the made me rethink the sale, and figure out how to make the Military something I would love 100%.

It's the stupid hump in the middle of the grip and the big bulbous pommel that really turned me off. I ended up sanding down the handle to make it less bulbous, and it became a completely different knife! It's risen to the top of my rotation, and I can't stop carrying it now as it completely suits my own personal grip style. I wouldn't be able to do that quite so easily with the Ti version. G-10 is tough as nails, but very easy to sand and shape, so I'll definitely be sticking with the all G-10 version.

Of course YMMV, but for me it was the right thing to do.

And as far as lock strength goes, keep in mind that just as a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, a metal beam under buckling stress falls along the same lines. I have yet to do any concrete engineering analysis of the Ti framelock version vs. the regular G-10 version, but the thinnest point on the Ti slab is easily as thin as (if not thinner) than the leaf spring in the G-10 version. But then the G-10 liner is shorter and stubbier than the Ti framelock, which helps offset the tendency to buckle along the length of the liner lock. Point is that it's gonna take pretty gross abuse of either one to cause lock failure.
 
Have you tried adjusting the pivot of your Caly 3? There should not be much play and I would be willing to bet if you tightened it up and used a little lock tight to hold it you would take out any play that could be complained about.

Also, the cutout on the Ti lockbar to allow flex is very short. Buckling takes into account the cross sectional area and the length. Since the thin part is very short and the rest is thick (large cross sectional area) the amount of force to cause it to buckle should be a lot higher than the liner lock version which is about as thin as the ti cutout but for the whole length of the lock.

As has been said, the Ti version is there to provide an option. There are some people who just love a titanium frame lock and it was made for those people. Pick the one that you like the best for whatever reason it appeals to you.
 
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