Another O1 Question

JK Knives

JK Knives

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What are the advantages of heat treating O1 multiple times over doing it once. I`ve heard some say they do it three times, while others don`t mention doing that.

Thanks
John
 
Multiple quenches refine grain in simple carbon steels. Getting a super-fine grain reduces hardenability for a steel, but because O1 is so deep hardening, it is ideally suited for multiple quenches.
 
Normalize properly, harden it right the first time and move on with making the knife. Keep the carbides out of grain boundaries, get proper soaks at controlled temperatures and you will find the miraculous claims of multiple quenching fall to more reasonable proportions.
 
The biggest thing for newbies like me is that there is no one way to HT. Would it be better for the steel to multiple quench anyway? What would improve the steel the most?
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Normalize properly, harden it right the first time and move on with making the knife. Keep the carbides out of grain boundaries, get proper soaks at controlled temperatures and you will find the miraculous claims of multiple quenching fall to more reasonable proportions.
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Do you think multiple quenching does not refine grain enough over normalizing to benefit? I think Ed Caffrey normalizes well enough, and he says the testing he had done showed a significant reduction in grain size. We're not talking about 5 times as many cuts on a rope or something, just real metallurgy: the grain size is reduced.
 
O-1 contains .20 V [Carpenter's version for example] which is there for grain refinement ! So multiple quenches are really a moot point.
 
Larrin when somebody as sharp as yourself is so quick to jump on that over blown band wagon... Oh the heck with it, considering what day it is people can do what they want in their shop, and I will do what I do in mine and leave others to make their own decisions here... Merry Christmas Larrin:)

Keith and Stomper your time and your materials are yours to explore as well, in the spirit of Christmas I think it would be fine for you to quench a dozen times if that is what works for you. To all a merry Christmas :thumbup:
 
If you have no way to control the heat treating, then triple-quenching just triples the amount of trouble you can get into, imho. This isn't to say that some folks aren't good enough at watching colours that they can't get the knife relatively even and consistent three times, but are you?

O1 basically has one way to heat treat, it requires coming to temp, soaking and then quenching. I think the most overlooked portion of that is the soaking, how are you doing it and for how long? Does your method bring the steel past critical and is it even?

It turns out that, as is the case with most things we work with, there's no great mystery here. I'd say if you don't have a furnace, don't bother with a triple quench. If you do have a furnace, still don't bother, it's a whole lot of time, energy and still more chance to screw up. What do you get out of all that labor and risk? Some possibility of blade superiority that you probably have no reasonable way to measure.
 
I`ve only been doing a single quench, which seems to be fine. One more question, is normalizing required if doing stock removal method, or only if forging?

Thanks for all of the replies,
John
 
I think it depends on how easy you want to make your life. Much of the extra heat treating operations done by smiths is to correct much of the mess they made of things in forging, whether they always realize this or not. Many of the concepts covered in this thread are indeed a moot point if you are stock removing, your steel will come to you in a fine spheroidal condition that will negate many of the effects of carbides being where they shouldn't; if you go messing with that in ways that you are not equipped to undo, it will only complicate your life unnecessarily.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Larrin when somebody as sharp as yourself is so quick to jump on that over blown band wagon... Oh the heck with it, considering what day it is people can do what they want in their shop, and I will do what I do in mine and leave others to make their own decisions here... Merry Christmas Larrin:)

Keith and Stomper your time and your materials are yours to explore as well, in the spirit of Christmas I think it would be fine for you to quench a dozen times if that is what works for you. To all a merry Christmas :thumbup:
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I think you don't like it because there is a bandwagon. Merry Christmas to you too. :)
 
I think so, band wagons have a very loud beat that makes it hard for me to keep time with my own, which I have always preferred to march to, so I try to stay far enough ahead of the bandwagons to hear my own drum in the parade. Or perhaps I just get a sadistic kick out of raining on parades;).
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
I think so, band wagons have a very loud beat that makes it hard for me to keep time with my own, which I have always preferred to march to, so I try to stay far enough ahead of the bandwagons to hear my own drum in the parade. Or perhaps I just get a sadistic kick out of raining on parades;).
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Further, if one follows behind the bandwagons all the time, sooner or later they're going to step in what the horse left behind. :)
 
John, get a proper soak and don't overheat while grinding and your single quench will be fine.
Scott
 
Thankyou Kevin, and a very MERRY CHRISTMAS. You, and Mete' also. I am very grateful to both of you for sharing your knowledge. I don't have the time, or educational background to learn all this by myself. The two of you have given me the ability to make ginourmous steps in my craft. I take in sort of a perverted pride when either of you can debunk commonly believed myths related to forging, and heat treating. Thanks again. Live long, and prosper, and I wish you both a happy, and productive new year.
 
LRB said:
Thankyou Kevin, and a very MERRY CHRISTMAS. You, and Mete' also. I am very grateful to both of you for sharing your knowledge. I don't have the time, or educational background to learn all this by myself.
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Amen to that!!!
 
So, I'm confused, you guys are just ignoring the fact that it further refines the grain?
 
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