another sharpening thread? really?

G

guntram

Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
276
yes... really. i've been reading through the forum about different sharpening systems and preferences, but i think i'm even more confused than when i started. so, sorry to ask the same questions as everyone else has, but i'm looking for a good system to sharpen some good knives with.

i'll mainly be sharpening an esee 5, izula, sog flash ii, and some type or multi-tool blade.

i'm hoping that i can touch up the edges daily just for fun and practice.

i'd like to freehand sharpen them. plus, i don't have the money for an edgepro that everyone seems to be in love with.

it has to be somewhat compact.

i was originally planning on just getting the smith's tri-hone system, but it seems that the norton version is better liked. are the norton stones really $60 worth better than the smith's?

is there a preferred method for the 1095 steel? i really don't want to damage the blades.

any preference between the two systems or recommendations for something that would work better? i really like the semi-compact, self-contained aspect of these two systems and would like to stay in that neighborhood.

thanks,
guntram
 
I have a Smith's Tri-hone and it works pretty well. I don't have the Norton oil stones so I can't compare directly but I do have a set of Norton water stones and they are of excellent quality so I would expect the same from their other stuff.

Now I don't think there's that much difference between the Smith's and Norton to cause you concern. They will both serve you well.

If you're only using the stones, I would consider adding a extra-fine stone as I find that the regular fine stones on these kits are not fine enough for me. Or you can add a strop to your sharpening and elevate your edges.
 
well, here is the norton system i was looking at: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-3-Stone-IM200-System-P31C18.aspx
i don't know that it would be any better than the smith's, but i do like that i can change out the stones for different needs. that way i can put a different fine stone if i wanted to. i don't know... i'm really new at this.
i also would probably get this if i got the norton system: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Stone-Topper-Strop-for-8-x-2-Stones-P312C11.aspx

another system i found after my original post was this one: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Ultimate-Oil-Stone-Kit-P320C100.aspx
it's not quite as compact and self-contained, but it looks like it would be a good option as well and it includes four different stones plus a strop.

if these aren't any better than the smith's i don't want to spend more money. i'm willing to pay more for better quality, but i'm not looking to get ripped off or pay for a name. thanks for your input. like i said, i'm a total newb.

guntram
 
The one trick, if it can be called that, is to get the edge down to the edge,
sometimes it will take a while to remove enough metal to actually get there
but don't give up, unless you have trouble keeping a steady hand that is.

I use a slew of stones to free hand sharpen, right now I use 8" by 2" set of Nortons
using a plastic case the will fit in, bought one for each of the three grits.
Forgot to mention that I sharpen dry, I don't use any oil on the stones at all
it provides a much better sharpening action, clean the stones with lighter fluid works best.
Norton stones

Norton Case

Fallkniven DC4

I grip the blade with my left hand to steady it as I push into the stone with my right hand
this way I can feel and make sure that I'm not wobbling the blade as I push it across
and as I pull it back towards me.

I'll try go get a video of that tonight if I can.

I recently picked up a small sharpening combo stone sold by Fallkniven the DC4
has on one side diamond and the other of synthetic sapphires and
boy that gives me an excellent edge, but it's small and I hand hold the stone as
I sharpen the final bit, then I strop on some chrome coated leather.

Here's a short video showing the Caly 3 as it push cuts into paper,
I recently learned about push cutting paper at Ashokan and that was an eye opener
for me, now I work to get my knives so they will push cut into paper easily
which means that the very edge is so defined that there isn't any resistance
to the material. So in the video here, I do not move the knife or paper up or down
but just push the knife into the edge of the paper, most knives will not cut into the
paper unless you try to slice into it, has to be a very keen edge to do that;

[youtube]D4_N-F5V1qo[/youtube]

G2
 
Last edited:
thanks for the advice and video, gary. that push cut on the paper is definitely what i'm looking for as far as sharpness goes.

this is kind of embarrassing, but i realized today that i already have a gatco edgemate pro system that i bought years ago to sharpen a kukri that had a nickel edge on it. anyway, i was really unsuccessful with that because of the blade shape and a lack of patience. also, the stone has a buttload of metal on it. any ideas of how i could clean it off? any advice as to whether that system is going to give me my desired results?

i'd really rather have the bench stones. i like the freedom and i wasn't a huge fan of the clamping system on the gatco.

i read that the arkansas stones are finer and give a better edge than the india stones. that has me leaning toward the ultimate kit with the four grits and strop. what do you guys think? i really don't want to waste money, so i want good quality and comprehensive, but somewhat affordable. basically, i don't want to spend more than the knife to keep a razor edge on it.

thanks,
guntram
 
It's tough to do a video without disturbing the rest of the household ;)

I made a post a while back regarding cleaning the stones; I've since included
that Fallkniven DC4 with the kit...

Here's my travel kit for sharpening, works pretty well;

Set of Spyderco Profiles, Spyderco DoubleStuff, Rust Eraser for cleaning the ceramics
Leather strop, a small fine india and a combo stone with a fine india and a coarse section
and a pound of Silicon Carbide grit for resurfacing the stones and lighter fluid for cleaning
the stones. I've stopped the oil mess and no looking back!

road_sharp1.jpg


got this plastic tub from Wallmart, it JUST holds the 1 pound of the Silicon Carbide grit
it's varying sized but works well, just use a piece of glass and a little water and you're in business ;)

silicon_carbide.jpg


I use a piece of plate glass, sprinkle a little of the carbide grit and spray some water on there
and then rub the stone in circles, it'll make a heck of a racket but it really
helps to resurface the stone.


Good to have when you can't bring your regular stones with ya :)
G2
 
What types of steels/knives do you usually sharpen?

The first norton tri stone kit would work well for grinding and setting bevels but the fine india is only around 320 grit.

The second kit with the arkansas stones would get you to razor sharpness but arkansas stones cut very slow and if your collection contains lots of very hard metals this could be a issue.

Your looking at good products but fill us in on the steel types and blade types you plan to sharpen. We'll be able to better help you that way.
 
guntram said:
i'll mainly be sharpening an esee 5, izula, sog flash ii, and some type or multi-tool blade.
Click to expand...

1095, 1095, AUS8, and i don't know yet.

i'll likely use it for other knives down the line, but these will be my main tools for a while. maybe my gil hibben pro throwers (420), but that's it for now.
 
Either the 4 stone set or a norton combo india and a 1k and 6k water stone. I'd probably go the later route myself.
 
i really like the idea of the water stones, but they are so much more expensive. i'm not sure i can spring for something like that right now.

i realized that i already have a gatco edgemate pro last night that i bought a while back to sltry and sharpen a kukri that had a nickel-like edge on it. it was a failed attempt and it left my stones with a lot of buildup. i tried to sharpen my sog this morning with the kit and it got it much better, but nowhere near the push cut some paper sharp. any suggestions on how to clean them? once they're clean, should they be more effective and give me the edge i'm seeking?

i still want some bench stones. i have no interest in trying to sharpen an esee 5 with the gatco system. i don't really like dealing with the clamp and i'd rather just freehand it.

i'm intrigued by this not using oils on the stones. it would be really nice to avoid the mess. if anyone else has experience doing that as well, i'd love to hear about it.

thanks,
guntram
 
Several folks I know do this now, as you can guess, it saves such a mess.

See this link here for some info

an portion down that page he makes the following comment;

"Everyone knows you need to lubricate your knife sharpening stone with water or oil, right?
So the question is which one is better. Neither. The purpose of a knife sharpening stone is to grind the edge and remove metal.
Oil reduces friction and makes the process much slower. Supposedly oil helps float away metal particles that would otherwise
clog the pores of the stone. You can do the same thing by wiping the stone with a damp cloth when you’re done.
Steve Bottorff reports that you can clean your Arkansas stones with paint thinner. Synthetic stones clean up with a
scouring pad and abrasive cleanser."

and here is another and quite nice tutorial on sharpening too, he also makes mention
of not using oil, if you had used oil, you'll need to resurface and clean the stone with
the silicon carbide grit, and then just use the lighter fluid to clean the stones after sharpening.

See this article here

and a last tip would be to work to make the bevels even on both sides before you
attack that last bit at the very edge, once you have both sides evened up and near
the edge, then you can keep working, making a burr and then lightly remove that burr
and strop the edge to it's final shape, make sure when you strop that you LIFT the
knife up and off the strop before you turn the knife over to go the opposite direction,
I've seen folks try to strop quickly and roll the knife over, which can also ruin the actual
edge as it rolls it will try to roll the edge as well, so once you reached the end of the
stroke of stropping the blade, lift it clear of the leather and then flip the knife over and
strop in the other direction.

also Tim Wright, a fairly popular knife make and his main daily work is sharpening all kinds
of blades, was the one that clued me in on this dry sharpening method, similar as to how
the knife makers will sharpen on belts but in the field it's not as easy to find a belt sander that's handy to use :)

On the road, the kit above I use in the hotel, but that Fallkniven DC4 alone will bring an
edge back to razor sharp quite easily.

G2
 
I left my oil can back in the mid-70's when I met Jurantich and saw him sharpen dry. But I like to use water on stones to keep the dust down! Of course, water stones do require water, but even with Arkansas, SiC, etc, I like to keep them damp when using.

Stitchawl
 
Look around more. Try woodcraft.com or highlandwoodworker.com

Highland has a 1k 6k combo for about 55 and the norton combo is about 20 from woodcraft.
 
ok, i'm seriously looking at waterstones now. i like both water and oil stones, but i really don't want to deal with two different kinds. i think i'd rather stick with the same type of stone.

that being said, i was looking at the kit on sharpening supplies with a 220/1000 combo and a 4000/8000 combo. it also comes with a flattening stone. is the flattening stone necessary? i've seen people sharpening with worn stones and doing just fine. one video i saw, they said that it didn't matter if the surface was flat or not because you should only have one spot on the blade touching one spot on the stone as you sharpen. i don't know if that's the case or not, i'm simply on a fact finding mission so i can make a good choice of sharpening system.

i'd rather not pay the $135 for the waterstone kit, but it seems to have a really good grit variety that could get my edge really sharp.

knifenut, would you recommend polishing up to 8000?

also, do you still use a strop if you sharpen up to that high of a grit, or does the 8000 and the prep stone have the same effect?

btw, i haven't found a norton 1000/6000 stone anywhere and the cheapest 1000/6000 i could find was about $35.

thanks,
guntram
 
I've heard low grit water stones wear quickly so having a norton combo india or Sic stone might be the better choice in that range. You can use water with them too.

The 1k 6k I saw was a king or some other brand.

The norton set looks good, the flattening stone is not needed if you have a sidewalk near you. You can flatten on a concrete driveway or sidewalk and is something you should do every few sharpenings.

8k would be a nice finishing point, very sharp and kinda the middle ground between high polish and toothy edge types.

You can strop after this but if you did your job on the stones its really not needed. It would probably be better for you to learn the stones first and worry about stropping later. It will help to better your skills with the stone instead of relying on the strop to fix your mistakes.

As you can probably tell stone sellection is not a easy process and can make your head spin with all the choices. The good thing is your looking at good products so don't feel like you might get ripped off, you will be getting quality tools.

You can also piece together your set, starting with the combo stone and a 1k and 4k single stone then adding the 8k later. Getting the combo water stones would save money but the single stones would last longer. So in the end you would have 4 stones, a combo india or Sic and a 1k, a 4k, and a 8k.
 
The sad truth is that you can read everything ever written about sharpening, but you have to find something that works for you. Buy something, anything, try it, and learn. As long as you aren't using too much pressure or holding the edge perpendicular to the stone you wont screw anything up.

If things aren't working so well during sharpening, write a post about your problem and the good people here will help you out.

1095 steel is a nice alloy to sharpen. Try the Smith's tri-hone if it is convenient. I would trust it.
 
Sharpening is 95% skill, and 5% the tools.

The finest sharpening tools in the world will not make a knife sharp unless you possess the proper skills.

There is lots of good advice here, and knifenut always has good advice on sharpening tools.

Whatever you decide on, just remember that it takes lots of practice, and you may get some discouraging results at first. Don't give up, be mindful of your angles, pressure, and your mechanics overall, and with time you will be producing consistent razor sharp hair popping edges.

JGON
 
knifenut1013 said:
I've heard low grit water stones wear quickly so having a norton combo india or Sic stone might be the better choice in that range. You can use water with them too.
Click to expand...

KN, the natural low grit water stones do wear very quickly, but the newer man-made ones last a lot longer. I don't know what they use as a bonding agent, but what ever it is, it really holds the stone grains together very well. You can see the difference in the slurries. Natural stones really make a muddy mess. The man-made stone slurries are more like clean water with some particles floating in it. They both work almost as well as each other, (almost being the operative word,) but the difference in wear is very obvious.

Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
KN, the natural low grit water stones do wear very quickly, but the newer man-made ones last a lot longer. I don't know what they use as a bonding agent, but what ever it is, it really holds the stone grains together very well. You can see the difference in the slurries. Natural stones really make a muddy mess. The man-made stone slurries are more like clean water with some particles floating in it. They both work almost as well as each other, (almost being the operative word,) but the difference in wear is very obvious.

Stitchawl
Click to expand...


So do you think just the two norton combo water stones would be better?
 
knifenut1013 said:
So do you think just the two norton combo water stones would be better?
Click to expand...

I don't know if 'better' would be the correct word. I'd use 'more price effective' and 'longer lasting.' And the edge results certainly just as good. But Norton wouldn't be my only entries for consideration. There is King, Toishi, Ice Bear, Takenoko, and several others that are all very effective. King is probably the best known and most easily available in the West, along with the stones Norton puts out.

While I happen to like natural stones, they do wear quickly and usually are far more expensive to purchase than the man-made stones.

Stitchawl
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top