another sharpening thread? really?

guntram said:
that being said, i was looking at the kit on sharpening supplies with a 220/1000 combo and a 4000/8000 combo. it also comes with a flattening stone. is the flattening stone necessary? i've seen people sharpening with worn stones and doing just fine. one video i saw, they said that it didn't matter if the surface was flat or not because you should only have one spot on the blade touching one spot on the stone as you sharpen. i don't know if that's the case or not, i'm simply on a fact finding mission so i can make a good choice of sharpening system.
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The Norton 220 waterstone is a fast wearing stone. I wouldn't recommend it in a combo stone. You'll have to keep it flat just to have a flat surface to use the 1000 side, and because you're only getting 1/2 a stone, between that and the wear in sharpening, it will be used up pretty quick.

The Norton 1000/8000 combo would be good if you don't want to spend a lot of money. The 1000 sets a decent edge and can make minor repairs... the 8K does a decent job of cleaning up and polishing the bevel. You can add the 220 as a seperate stone later, (or another coarse alternative), if you find you're needing a coarser stone. You'll wear the 1K before the 8K, but it's slower wearing, should last a while, and you'll still have an 8K that will last a long time.

The King 1K/6K is also a decent stone.

And yes, either get the flattening stone or some method of flattening the stone. It does matter, not only in sharpening, but you need a flat surface on the stone because it's a base for the other side.

cbw
 
isn't 1000 to 8000 quite a jump? should there be a step in between?

i really appreciate all the advise you guys are giving me. right now, i'm looking into cheaper brands than norton and i'm looking at getting non-combo stones. it might be cool to have a 4000/8000 stone, but i'm having a hard time finding one from anyone other than norton.

also, 1000 is probably too fine to start with, right? i could just do 1000, 4000, and 8000, but i should probably start with something more coarse?


or, maybe a 220 stone and the king 1000/6000? would the 220 do just as well as the combo india? like i said before, i'd like to stick with all oil or all water if i can help it. plus, that would end up being about the same amount of money. i want something nice, but it doesn't have to be super nice. this will be my first attempt at this type of sharpening and i don't need to learn on some $$$$ stone.
 
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You can start with a two stone system and grow depending on your needs. A 1K to 8K jump will work, you may not polish all the scratches out, but you'll be left with a very sharp edge.

1K isn't too fine to start with. It can remove quite a bit of metal. If you watch Murray Carter's video on YouTube, he repairs and sharpenes a chipped blade in about 10 min. with a 1K stone, 6K finish. A coarse stone makes it easier, but you can also make mistakes quicker with a coarse stone.

If you're looking at alternatives, the Bester 1200 followed by the Takenoko 8000 is a great 2 stone combo. If you want a coarse stone that works well, and wears slower than most, look at the Beston 500. You have to make some mud to get it to work, but once you do, it works very well and wears slowly. (There's descriptions on the linked pages that may help you decide).

cbw
 
I got a king 1k6k from Japan Woodworker for about $35. It works pretty darn well I'd say, and I have a full set of DMTs and 5 Choseras from 400 to 10k. It's surprising to me how well that cheap little stone works. Most people would be happy with the shaving sharp edge I get with just that stone, and it cuts (and wears) fast too.
 
ok, a lot of going back and forth here...

i'm trying to juggle the cost with the benefit. i'm a little worried that i'm not going to have a large water supply in the near future and it might make it difficult for me to use a waterstone. :( couple that with the fact that i'll just be learning how to sharpen freehand and i don't want to invest the money if i don't know what i'm doing. i know i can still learn on cheaper stones, but here's what i think it's gonna come down to...

will the soft/hard arkansas stone get my blade as sharp as a 6000 waterstone?

if so, i'll likely just get the india combo and the arkansas combo. if not, i'll probably go for the 1000/6000 combo and a 220 waterstone. i'd like to go up to an 8000 stone, but they are a lot more expensive and the 1000/6000 is probably better for me to learn on as long as i have something more coarse to fix any issues just in case. i'm still a little worried about the water supply in the desert, but we'll see.

so, any ideas? would the 220 and 1000/6000 give me a sharper edge than the combo india and the soft/hard arkansas? i also plan on using a strop sometime in the future, but as was suggested to me earlier in the thread, i want to mostly rely on the stones and technique.

oh, and assuming i don't use oil on the oil stones, how do you clean them? i read the suggestions, but i don't understand the process. would i soak them like the waterstones or just sprinkle some water on the surface? how exactly do i clean them with lighter fluid? do the waterstones just simply rinse off when i'm done with them?

ok, sorry for the barrage of questions there. please share your wisdom, fellow knife lovers. :)
 
Waterstones are pretty nice stones, but for me they are for home use, not for
travel or in the field very much. That little Fallkniven stone has carried me for
a few trips now, pretty handy to bring an edge back to life.

As for lighter fluid, that would be just for the norton oil stones, I don't know how
or if that would work on the water stones. As I recall you just rinse the stones
and they are kinda self cleaning, you may need to 'surface' those stones on a flat
diamond stone, the kind the sell for the water stones would be handiest.

Good luck in your endeavours, I just put an edge on a Boker Haddock tonight,
arrived fairly sharp but wouldn't push cut at all, also the main bevels were not in the same plane,
some slight ripples most likely sharpened on a belt and you can get a little wobble into the bevels from
that, the stones brought the bevels back into nice smooth even plane again.
and now it push cuts easily :)
G2
 
I know that I would be happier with waterstones. I used Arkansas stones for many many years. My eyes have been opened, and it's not even a sorta close race.

I have it on good authority that Simple Green works better than oil on oil stones, and I'm sure that were I to ever go back to oilstones- which is nearly incomprehensible, that's what I would use. Lighter fluid is naphtha. It's pretty expensive, even when you buy it by the gallon as "VM&P Naphtha" in the hardware store. It's simply 'hotter' paint thinner.

Guntram, you're probably overthinking this a bit. It's not a big deal. Rub knife on rock. Knife be sharper.
 
grizzled gizzard said:
Guntram, you're probably overthinking this a bit. It's not a big deal. Rub knife on rock. Knife be sharper.
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hahahahaha... thanks. i know it's ridiculous. sometimes i think that the internet makes it harder to make decisions. too many options readily available.

i'm either going to get the india/arkansas combo or a 1000/6000 with a lower grit waterstone. still going back and forth between these two options in my head.

i really wanted to go up to 8000 for a waterstone, but i'm not wanting to dish out the money for that just yet. it's quite a bit more expensive for the 8000.
 
guntram said:
hahahahaha... thanks. i know it's ridiculous. sometimes i think that the internet makes it harder to make decisions. too many options readily available.

i'm either going to get the india/arkansas combo or a 1000/6000 with a lower grit waterstone. still going back and forth between these two options in my head.

i really wanted to go up to 8000 for a waterstone, but i'm not wanting to dish out the money for that just yet. it's quite a bit more expensive for the 8000.
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Don't feel bad, I've been trying to find the right stones for many years and have spent thousands in my quest. In the "end" I have found that there is no One stone but different sets that you must have. When I tried Diamonds I thought I had found what would be my last and only set I needed but realized that was not the case. Some steels simply need a softer/smoother abrasive to get the right finish and edge and a second stone set is what I realized I needed. If you want to know the stones I choose look at my water stone thread, that's also been another quest that's been running for about 8 years. So again, don't worry we all go through the head aches of stone selection.

Just go for the water stones ;)
 
You can do a lot with the 1K/6K waterstone.... this would be a great choice. Again, just watch Murray's videos. Unless you have some seriously damaged blades, or want to do some major reprofiling, you shouldn't need anything coarser. You can get a lot of work done with a 1K stone.

A stone that's been overlooked, if you don't want to mess with water or oil, are the Razor Edge Systems stones. They work well, hold up well, and if you're new to sharpening, you can get the guide (and/or book) which will teach you a lot about freehand sharpening.

cbw
 
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