Another shelter thread - best light combo?

[kgd]

We see these threads periodically talking about the merits of tarp set-ups, bivvies, hammocks etc. I'd like to start this thread off as a discussion considering the merits of light shelters and considering cost/benefit and performance/convenience factors of different combinations. Where possible, I'd like people to gather hard facts (specs) supporting claims of light weight etc.

Things to consider. Use in rainy conditions, use under windy conditions, four season use. What are accessory items needed for a complete shelter + sleeping and overall weight costs (minus sleeping bag).

Light weight options:

Ultralight tents. Some of these like the big agnes SL1 seedhouse weigh as little as 1.0 kg (2 lbs 13 oz) complete with fly. Advantages: good for buggy conditions, rain and wind. Tents keep condensation off of body. Fly can be used on its own as a tarp. Accessory items required: sleeping mat.

Disadvantages. Price $250.00, only sleeps one although the SL2 is 1.2 kg but costs $320.00 for larger tent. Needs level ground to set up. Set up times vary depending on the tent and practice. Usually at least 10 min.

Overall - I like tents the best for comfort and personal feeling of security (I know that is a false sense but it is what I group up with). However, you often pay for that luxury in price and weight.


Silnylon tarps. Depending on the size, weights can range from 0.4 kg to 0.7 kg. Can be set-up in a variety of ways. Some tarps like the Integral designs sil-shelter are pre-shaped so that you set up with a single pole (like a trecking pole or cut sapling) and stake down. This would make set-up quick and easy. Accessories are more than just the type. It seems to me that some kind of ground sheet is required for foul weather (i.e. prevent rain from leaking on you) which will add perhaps 0.2 to 0.4 kg weight. Also requires sleeping pad (like all shelters) and sleeping bag.

Advantages: perhaps the lightest option even with ground sheet. More space and flexibility in the space provided (i.e. you can set the tarp up higher for greater room). Setting up the tarp higher off the ground eliminates condensation, even better than a tarp. A lot of people like the openness of a tarp. Great view of the sky. Set-up would be really fast, faster than a tent. Price is great - ranging from $10 for a blue tarp (at weight cost) to about $150 for high end, pre-shaped sil-nylon ones. Finally, the biggest advantage is the packability. Smallest packed package of all shelter options.

Disadvantages: Buggy conditions - either just deal with it, use a tonne of bug spray or use a mosquito screen or bug shirt in sleeping bag. Rain + wind can lead to shift in direction of rain fall and get you wet. Like tent, requires level ground to set-up and sleep under. The designs that use a pole on the inside (like the Sil-shelter) - you have to avoid knocking out the pole when having a "practical-tactical" dream.

Bivy Sacks

The ultimate in single person shelter. A tiny single walled tent that essentially fits around your sleeping bag. Some are more elaborate than others with a small pool that lifts the face portion of the bivvy up and keeps it off your head. Some zip right up for full enclosure, other more basic ones keep the face open or have no-seeum mesh at the face but require a small tarp to keep rain off the head portion. Full water proof construction at bottom of bag and top part of main body. Price varies tremondously, from $30 for the AMK (not waterproof and emergency usage) to >$300 for full gortex + pole designs.

Advantages. Simplest set-up of all. Lay-it down, place sleeping pad and bag inside and get in. Four-season application. As indicated above, some require a small tarp be placed over the face area for additional rain protection. Weight seems intermediate between tent and tarp. More elaborate systems weight 1.2 kg and lighter ones can be had at 0.4 kg.

Disadvantges. Claustrophic people need not apply. Probably the worst sense of security. Sitting in the open, while at the same time quite immobilized by two layers of sleeping bag and surrounding bag and all those zippers (again I'm projecting my phobias onto the discussion). Condensation is the biggest issue. The close proximity and often lack of breathability causes the condensation to form right at the outer surface touching your bag.

Hammocks
Okay - I don't have much experience on hammocks and I have to go to work now, so hopefully somebody else can continue the discussion on hammocks.

 

[Rupestris]

1 Kg = 2Lb 3.5oz.
Good post.:thumbup: I need to put some thought into shelter options this year.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The way I see it tarps can be used in conjunction with a lean-to shelter setup as a windbreak/waterproofing element. Full-blown tents have an advantage for camping and recreational purposes or when you're in highly exposed areas.

Does that make sense?

 

[jds1]

I think an ultralight tent is the way to go when a majority of your camping is done in buggy conditions. Also, having a little more interior space to move around in is a plus. I've spent hours in a bivy because it was too rainy and buggy to be up and around and it was miserable. In addition, many tents can be used as just a fly or as a fly/footprint combo for an even lighter more packable option, so you get the best of both worlds.

Jeff

 

[CSG]

Personal or two man tents make the most sense to me for multi day comfort. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

That said, when I was backpacking in California (mostly) and was 35 years younger I slept in my bag on a foam pad on a ground sheet under the stars. If it started to rain I'd try to find shelter or throw the ground cloth over the bag like a blanket. I got a little wet from time to time but I was young and hearty and only went out for two nights at most anyway. I've never been into the long backpacking trips because I didn't like humping a large pack.

By the time I decided to start using a tent for comfort I started looking at day trips instead and sleeping in the back of my truck in the evenings. Now, I've got a camping van and go camping in national forests or BLM away from campgrounds. Living in Idaho is great!

I should add that now I have a GoLite poncho and heat sheet in my day packs and if I were caught out would use those to shelter me for better or worse.

 

[Brad "the butcher"]

asolo makes really good wing style pretapered silnylon tarps. come with shock corded poles, tie off ropes and stakes. Really sturdy and I skip the poles because I hike with 2 already. I like to ducttape 2ft pole extensions when its dry for more room. Plastic ground sheet and your good. I'll bring a tent if the woman's along (bugs), otherwise me and Spot just rough it. In bed late drunk and up early to fish so I miss the mosquitoes until it warms in the morning. How's that for strategy???

 

[Fonly]

For me, the tarp, or heavy duty "heat sheats" are the way to go. If im car camping, or just walking a few Km's to go camping, Ill take a tent. But the times I went on solo trips back in Nova scotia, I would take a good sized tarp, built my shelter, then conver with the tarp. I've slept better nights in the woods than in my own bed, beside a women

Seriously though, there is something about waking up, 7-8 am and a light sprinkle of rain coming down with an overcast, I know one night I slept out and it began to snow, its was brisk but man it was nice.

My shelter needs consist of rope, a tarp or similar, folding saw and a knife. I think that brings me to around 2 pounds at the most, every thing else is Icing.

 

[1Tracker]

The way I see it tarps can be used in conjunction with a lean-to shelter setup as a windbreak/waterproofing element. Full-blown tents have an advantage for camping and recreational purposes or when you're in highly exposed areas.

Does that make sense?

Not wanting to repost KGD's full post I chose this one...

Bivy, for folks well versed in camping it makes 'ease of pitching camp', as easy as just dropping your gear and setting up. No need to be too picky, just level and dry for the night. Works best IME in low humidity areas/situations.

Light tent, best all around for most folks because it CYA's for you if you muck up out there. You're enclosed from the elements, wind, rain, sun; and you can sort your gear without fear of it leaving your sight from a sudden gust of wind. Depending upon how many are in your camping party then you size the tent accordingly, 2lbs per person can make for a durable tent that has room enough to be comfortable in. Note, you can get plenty of UL tents that are very cramped but then you are'nt comfortable, so what's the sense in that

Tarps of any kind, are for the well versed/experienced outdoorsman since mucking it up could cost you your life. Tarps expose one to the weather more than most folks are used to; hence the chance for hypothermia is greater. Also, as KGD mentioned, being open to one side a tarp is subject to the changing weather conditions more so than a tent or even a bivy. You can move the bivy to a more sheltered area; the tent's enclosed so no worries; the tarp is a PITA in strong winds to reconfigure for less than experinced folks IME.

Hammock, very subjective as to how cold one can sleep in one comfortably, without carrying excess gear to accomplish it. I've hammocked for 20 years in Late Spring to Early Fall weather and been more than comfortable. It's when the weather takes a biting cold turn that I switch back to a tent. When you're done adding up all the extra pads, under-quilts, etc for the hammock's cold weather use, I've found it approaching the weight of a reasonable tent.

Have/had 'em all and there is a season for each; and there is risk that needs to be taken into consideration for each choice. Region and climate play a large role in what you'll find comfortable for shelther along the way IME.

Note, I often buy 2 of something if I find I like the product; for fear of it not being available in the future or it wearing out. I actually have some of my 'spares' listed for trade/sale since none seem to be in danger of me wearing them out any time soon.

 

[Ravaillac]

Tarps are the most versatile. Can use them for sleeping, cooking...

Tents obviously have an edge in very windy conditions.

There are two types of bivy:
microtents: like very small tents
sacks: breathable waterproof sleeping bag shells.

Problems with bivies are:
they are often not that breathable
despite their simplicity they are often pretty heavy (many military bivysacks weight about 1kg: almost as heavy as some tents.

Generally carry a tarp (or poncho) plus a light bivysack.

 

[BlackHills]

Ultralight tents. Some of these like the big agnes SL1 seedhouse weigh as little as 1.0 kg (2 lbs 13 oz) complete with fly. Advantages: good for buggy conditions, rain and wind. Tents keep condensation off of body. Fly can be used on its own as a tarp. Accessory items required: sleeping mat.

Disadvantages. Price $250.00, only sleeps one although the SL2 is 1.2 kg but costs $320.00 for larger tent. Needs level ground to set up. Set up times vary depending on the tent and practice. Usually at least 10 min.

Overall - I like tents the best for comfort and personal feeling of security (I know that is a false sense but it is what I group up with). However, you often pay for that luxury in price and weight.

I prefer tents as well, where I tend to go camping it's possible to get snowed on any month of the year. If you want a light tent with more room than the ones you listed take a look at Tarptent or Six Moons Design. I'm 99% sure that the SMD Lunar Duo is going to be my next tent...34 sq ft of floor space and 42 oz (standard floor).

 

[kgd]

Okay, sorry it took so long for me to respond guys. I've been packing for the Michigan get-together slated for tomorrow night. I typed that post out in the morning and I must have been pretty drowsy because there are plenty of typos in there!

Anyhow, great responses guys and lets keep this discussion going a bit.

But the times I went on solo trips back in Nova scotia, I would take a good sized tarp, built my shelter, then conver with the tarp. I've slept better nights in the woods than in my own bed, beside a women

Sounds very nice Fonly. My remembering of things is that when your are under age of twenty and have a woman beside you in bed that you never get much sleep anyway In case you are concerned, that will change when you once you approach fortyish.

Not wanting to repost KGD's full post I chose this one.......Have/had 'em all and there is a season for each; and there is risk that needs to be taken into consideration for each choice. Region and climate play a large role in what you'll find comfortable for shelther along the way IME.

Awesome comments 1Tracker; that is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping this thread would stimulate!

Tarps are the most versatile. Can use them for sleeping, cooking...

Also many good comments Ravaillac. Now we haven't had a whole pile of hammock posts yet, but I'd like to see somebody chime in.

Still am I the only one deathly afraid of sitting in the middle of nowhere stuck in a bivvy sack. I just have this horrid vision of a bear coming along and enjoying a human fajita. In a tent or a tarp, you are kind of free to move independent of the walls of your surrounding shelter but that bivvy is going to hold onto yeah. Maybe its all just sillyness, how vulnerable do you bivvy folks really feel when you are out there all alone?

 

[Ravaillac]

Still am I the only one deathly afraid of sitting in the middle of nowhere stuck in a bivvy sack. I just have this horrid vision of a bear coming along and enjoying a human fajita. In a tent or a tarp, you are kind of free to move independent of the walls of your surrounding shelter but that bivvy is going to hold onto yeah. Maybe its all just sillyness, how vulnerable do you bivvy folks really feel when you are out there all alone?

Well, this is a knife forum, don't tell me you don't have anything to cut through in case of an emergency.

As for bivy bag I use that: http://www.moontrail.com/clothing/hilleberg_bivanorak.php
You can do stuff with it on and even walk. Pretty roomy, not too heavy.

As for hammock, well if you're in the hills, it's often a PITA to find some flat zone to erect your tent or simply lye down. I know a couple of stories about people rolling down the hill on their sleeping mat.

I think hammock has a huge advantage: you can stop anywhere on the hillside.

Of course that implies wooden hill side: cause if you're in plains or most non wooden areas you're hammock would be useless. Also applies to a lesser extend to tarps (although you still can use walking poles as poles).

 

[Fonly]

Sounds very nice Fonly. My remembering of things is that when your are under age of twenty and have a woman beside you in bed that you never get much sleep anyway In case you are concerned, that will change when you once you approach fortyish.

Haha, Ive been with'er 7 years now, may as well be another 20 years ahead.

Still am I the only one deathly afraid of sitting in the middle of nowhere stuck in a bivvy sack. I just have this horrid vision of a bear coming along and enjoying a human fajita. In a tent or a tarp, you are kind of free to move independent of the walls of your surrounding shelter but that bivvy is going to hold onto yeah. Maybe its all just sillyness, how vulnerable do you bivvy folks really feel when you are out there all alone?

you and me both, I WILL NOT be sticking it out in a bivy, not a chance, I might sound crazy but I wont!
I just like having the little bit more around me, plus, like you said I can still move freely around in the tent. As soon as my firearms license goes through again (freggin Canadian firearms centre) I wont be worrying about it too much, Mr.12 Gauge will have a permanent residency when I go for trips, but I still wont be found in a bivy!

 

[runningboar]

I am a tarp guy, with a little practice you can rig a tarp to be very weather worthy, they are very light and can be rigged in almost any location. The silnylon tarps are very light and easy to carry but fairly expensive, if you are willing to carry a couple more ounces the coated nylon tarps are about half the price, IMO making the best compromise. When I am out in the woods I don't like being shut up in a tiny tent, much less a claustrophobic bivy. With my tarp I can lay in my bag and watch the fire, wake up in the morning and watch the sun come up, listen to the rain while I am nice and dry, just enjoy the out of doors more.

It seems a lot of people are leery of being able to pitch a tarp in a weather proof configuration. My suggestion is before you spend the bucks on a nice tarp go to your local mega mart and buy a cheap blue poly tarp and practice pitching it in the backyard until you are satisfied you can do it in the woods, then you can spend the bucks on a nice one.

This is a 10x10 campmor coated nylon tarp, it cost about 40 bucks, with kelty triptease cord and aluminum tent stakes from wally world it weighs about 2 pounds. It has never let me down, I use my poncho or a piece of tyvek for a ground cloth, it is plenty big enough for 2 and your gear. If there are a lot of bugs where you live or if you don't like creepy crawlies a tarp is probably not for you. Here is a pic of mine set up in Nantahala National Forest.

 

[sicily02]

Hi all,

I like the the tarps with bug net to keep them out. I have used this combo for years. I do like tents and have used some different ones but still really like the tarp for a shelter. I have used a couple of hammocks and they work pretty good for me.

Bryan

 

[DaleW]

Check out Henry Shires tarp tents and Six Moon Designs for the best light tents. GoLite has a bunch of light shelters that offer 360 degree protection and have accessory bug net inserts.

I use a Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape, which is an 11oz silnylon poncho that can be used as a 35 sq.ft. tent.

For day hike/survival use, the Adventure Medical Thermolite bivy teamed up with a GoLite poncho/tarp is a great combination and costs about $75.

Bivies are compact, but aren't all that light and some can be really expensive. The fully enclosed ones are cramped. I have a Black Diamond Lightsabre bivy that has a frame to give a little head and shoulder room and a good bug screen. I can sleep on my side with my shoulder clear of the canopy.

Keep in mind that bivies were orginaly designed for climbing and military use. Tarps are spacious mansions in comparison. Tarps are great for areas that aren't buggy and little or sporadic rain. IMHO, coastal areas and high winds require a more enclosed shelter.

Four season use and light make for a difficult combination. A shelter that will hold up under a snow load and withstand a winter storm needs to be tough. The true winter tents are getting lighter, but are no match for the sub 3 pound fully enclosed tents that are out there now.

 

[BlairB]

I am a tarp guy, with a little practice you can rig a tarp to be very weather worthy, they are very light and can be rigged in almost any location. The silnylon tarps are very light and easy to carry but fairly expensive, if you are willing to carry a couple more ounces the coated nylon tarps are about half the price, IMO making the best compromise. When I am out in the woods I don't like being shut up in a tiny tent, much less a claustrophobic bivy. With my tarp I can lay in my bag and watch the fire, wake up in the morning and watch the sun come up, listen to the rain while I am nice and dry, just enjoy the out of doors more.

It seems a lot of people are leery of being able to pitch a tarp in a weather proof configuration. My suggestion is before you spend the bucks on a nice tarp go to your local mega mart and buy a cheap blue poly tarp and practice pitching it in the backyard until you are satisfied you can do it in the woods, then you can spend the bucks on a nice one.

This is a 10x10 campmor coated nylon tarp, it cost about 40 bucks, with kelty triptease cord and aluminum tent stakes from wally world it weighs about 2 pounds. It has never let me down, I use my poncho or a piece of tyvek for a ground cloth, it is plenty big enough for 2 and your gear. If there are a lot of bugs where you live or if you don't like creepy crawlies a tarp is probably not for you. Here is a pic of mine set up in Nantahala National Forest.

Wow, awesome pic!

 

[Ming65]

This is the rig I use most often.

http://www.wildequipment.com.au/tent_detail.php?Code=WEOHSIL

On the 20+ day walk I did in central Oz two years ago it worked fine although I didn't have the sleeping bag configuration right and I froze from 3am till dawn most nights (gets down to -8 out there at night)

The only negative against tarps in Oz is nasty biting insects, of which there are a few varieties -also snakes seeking somewhere warm to sleep during the night. Sealing yourself in with a tent is a nicer option in some locales.

 

[HikingMano]

Kgd, excellent thread and discussion :thumbup::thumbup: Lots of good information about shelter all in one spot.

I can't really contribute, as I've only slept in a tent or open air with a blanket (so far), but I am learning a ton.

 

[darkhawk424]

for those who are using a tarp with bug net. What type of netting do you use and how do you set it up?

for me i use both hammock and tarp. hammocks are good for sleeping above ground so you no need to worry bout wet or ground full of bugs. Tarp if place above the hammock for shelter bags can be place under the hammock or place in a garbage bag and under for wet weather protection or hang beside you on your hiking pole.

Disadvantages are that in windy night without any sleeping pad below you you might wake up cold. you need to watch out for your weights as the rope or web might snap you need to watch out or a few surface as it may rub against the rope or webbing cutting it. bugs may also be a problem unless you get a hammock with a built in netting.

I wont be able to put up the pricing as in Singapore not much hammock is being sold and different place will sell it at a different price.

weight wise depending on you and the weather, it may be the lightest or one of the heavy system.

hope this help