Another way to get it done.......Big tree, tight spot

[Old Axeman]

A17- depends what you are doing with the saw and how tall you are. For the 075 I kept a 36" bar. That allowed me to fell and buck the bigger dia. sticks. Now the 056 super was my saw for swamping, felling, limbing and bucking. I kept the 056 with a 28" bar. In a full on production mode, for my height, and most dia. sticks, the 28" allowed me to do all 4 operations with just one saw. The critical factor is the limbing. You have to have a bar length that allows you to carry the saw with comfort and just reach the ground with the tip for limbing. That allows you to carry without adjusting your hold over and over. For my height and hold position that was 28" with the 056.

Mule man- the bell base jacks would still have a use in the wilderness areas where your jack would not be allowed. One trick is to make up a steel plate to span and catch the top of both jacks. ALWAYS use 2 jacks. Weld some short sections of pipe to the plate for the target heads to fit in and be captive. Also, if the jacks have swivel heads, weld them so they dont swivel. You want the heads to still rotate, just not swivel. The down side of this top plate is that you have a extra projectile if something goes sideways on you. The trick to the 2 bell base jack operation is that you have to learn, by feedback from the handles as you take up the jacks, that you are exserting equal lift with both jacks. This is some thing you learn from using these jacks often. Last thought- NEVER and I mean NEVER do this with automotive style hydralic jacks, you get no feed back.

 

[muleman77]

Thats pretty much what I had in mind with the bell jack O Old Axeman . Thanks for throwing in some of the details you learned.

One of the really good things about a set of Jack's like I've got is the guage. It really let's you see what the tree is doing as you go.

Even then, I still back up with wedges.

One time I was low on oil, unknowingly, and couldn't quite complete the lift. None in the truck either. I was able to wedge until I saw the pressure drop way down, knowing then I wasn't loaded anymore I backed down, unhooked one ram, and had enough oil to get the height needed.

I run just one ram in a lot of the 3 foot or so roadside stuff, so I knew it would lift it, but much better to start that way if that's how your going to finish!

 

[thunderstick]

Very interesting technique ... I've never used or needed to use a jack to fell trees. I have had my son, my resident goto monkey, climb and top out with a climbing saw before felling a problematic tree this fall with wedges and a rope.

 

[Old Axeman]

When I said never use hyd. jacks I meant to say automotive hyd. jacks. Your system is a whole different animal because the jacks are hooked together and have a gauge. But, as you described, you can run out of oil. There is not a lot of ways a bell base screw jack can let you down, unless you loose the handle. It did happen one time that I screwed the top out of the base while under load. This should not happen because they have a stop. The jack in question came from an auction and some bonehead removed the stop. From then on when I bought used jacks I always checked for the stop. As you say, always back up with wedges.

You are not allowed to use your system in the designated wilderness areas are you ?

 

[muleman77]

Going too high......You can run the hydraulics too high and blow a seal on these, so Its something to watch. Theres a well marked red line on the rams that you do not go past if it shows. I can get about 5 inches of lift, which is plenty for anything you should even try to push over. At some point the leverage and gravity of a heavy enough lean will get the better of you without some rigging up there. I've cut a few huge sidehill Doug fir in combo with Jacks and a D8 winch. One more reason a sawyer has to be very precise using these things, and know how to read trees well.

I'm not honestly 100% sure on the wilderness question O Old Axeman .

We do use griphoist and they are a type of manually powered machine. As the bell Jack's would be. Hydraulics may technically be different but it's not going to ever disturb anyone, so I'd run it if there was a need.

I'd like to fall a heavy tree against its lean with them and a crosscut just as a matter of being correct with the time period though. Be a good bit of technical axe and saw work I'd enjoy.

 

[David Martin]

This was just great! Some things I had never seen done. Thanks for the photos for us lower woodsman. DM

 

[Old Axeman]

Muleman- I worked wilderness projects in four different USFS regions. I was told yes to griphoists, screw jacks, shoring jacks, and cameras. No to chainsaw, hyd. anything, generators and cordless carpenters tools even with solar chargers.

I am sure that if you fell a big stick using screw jacks, axe and crosscut you will show pictures here.

 

[Old Axeman]

Since we are talking USFS stuff I need to clear up something. For the record--there were two Bernie Weisgerbers who worked for the USFS at some point. The other BW is my first cousin. He was a District Ranger in Colorado, Oregon, and Calif. What are the chances of two of us with a strange name working for the same outfit?

 

[VintageAxe]

I cut with a boring backcut when it's useful. I've got more pics from this season to make threads of that might have one of those.

Agreed, it's one tool among many. A toolbox with only one wrench in it, no matter how good, isn't much of a toolbox in my mind. I expose my rookie sawyers to as many techniques and tricks as I can. When I came east it blew my mind: there were people here who thought it was crazy and unsafe to cut a conventional or humboldt, even among the c sawyers. There are still some of them who pretty much walk up to every tree with the same OFBB cutting plan. After I started really noticing how many baptist churches there were around it made more sense how people could have such a black and white view of things.

 

[muleman77]

Muleman- I worked wilderness projects in four different USFS regions. I was told yes to griphoists, screw jacks, shoring jacks, and cameras. No to chainsaw, hyd. anything, generators and cordless carpenters tools even with solar chargers.

I am sure that if you fell a big stick using screw jacks, axe and crosscut you will show pictures here.

That's probly the case here too, if we
we were to ask.
I'll take some pictures if it ever happens

Agreed, it's one tool among many. A toolbox with only one wrench in it, no matter how good, isn't much of a toolbox in my mind. I expose my rookie sawyers to as many techniques and tricks as I can. When I came east it blew my mind: there were people here who thought it was crazy and unsafe to cut a conventional or humboldt, even among the c sawyers. There are still some of them who pretty much walk up to every tree with the same OFBB cutting plan. After I started really noticing how many baptist churches there were around it made more sense how people could have such a black and white view of things.

R5 has a pretty strict saw policy, but it's based on a lot of west coast techniques. We have had to loosen our standards in some ways to be more in line with the national policy that's being pushed now.

I agree on th ed black and white too.

East coast techniques can be tough on some of our ground, and ours aren't great for a big heavy crowned hardwood.

I teach a variety as well, and wont certify a C who cant show me they're comfortable with the uncomfortable. A good top sawyer should be able to correctly read a tree and then make the saw do whatevers required. Really not many that can!