Another Where Can I Get Quenchent Oil Thread

Phil Dwyer

Phil Dwyer

Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
3,494
Hi Friends,

I'm having a dickens of a time getting a fast quenchent oil. The fastest seems to be Parks #50 at 7-9 seconds. Unfortunately it is darn near impossible to source. The only place I can find it is Kelly Cupples for $125 per 5 gallons. I then need to spend another $120 to ship to Hawaii. $250 is pretty hefty.

So what else is fast? Houghton's Quench K seems to be, at apparently 7-9 seconds. I haven't cracked the nut on where to source it yet though. I emailed Houghton via their website, but haven't heard back from them. Anyone have any leads?

Next in line seems to be McMaster Carr's #3202K7 at 9-11 seconds. I've heard mixed opinions as to its speed though. What say you good folks?

Anyone know any other fast real quench oils I can actually buy and afford?

Thanks so much, Phil
 
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I will tell you what, I will move out to your place for the winter and you can move up here to Winnipeg for the winter, and you will only spend half as much on shipping:p

We have a bit of a time getting quenchent oil up here too.
 
I'm not sure what kind of steel you're using, but I'm using Kelly Cupples' 1080, and plan on using good ol' fashion canola oil, after I head up to Salem's and he schools me on quenching and hamons on my first knife that is.
 
Farmer Phil said:
Hi Friends,

I'm having a dickens of a time getting a fast quenchent oil. The fastest seems to be Parks #50 at 7-9 seconds. Unfortunately it is darn near impossible to source. The only place I can find it is Kelly Cupples for $125 per 5 gallons. I then need to spend another $120 to ship to Hawaii. $250 is pretty hefty.

So what else is fast? Houghton's Quench G seems to be, at apparently 7-9 seconds. I haven't cracked the nut on where to source it yet though. I emailed Houghton via their website, but haven't heard back from them. Anyone have any leads?

Next in line seems to be McMaster Carr's #3202K7 at 9-11 seconds. I've heard mixed opinions as to its speed though. What say you good folks?

Anyone know any other fast real quench oils I can actually buy and afford?

Thanks so much, Phil
Click to expand...

I believe that Houghton's Quench K at 7-9 seconds "fast" is faster than G "medium to fast"
http://www.houghton.ca/products.asp?Cat=1&SubCat=9



If shipping is a big consideration for you, apparently Houghtons water based Aqua Quench polymers are sold in concentrate form, but they do degrade and require replacement more often...

I know that this one is available to me locally in 5 gallon pails, but have no info on actual speed measurement
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/637109001.pdf
 
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Phil, I've used agricultural horse grade mineral oil for several years now as my faster quench. That should be something pretty easy to find.
 
Phil, I just gave a lengthy reply to your inquiry on this topic at the ABS forum, I will refer you to that post rather than retyping the information here.
 
Copy pasted Kevin's response

http://www.americanbladesmiths.com/ipboard/index.php?/topic/109-sourcing-a-fast-quenchent/

Kevin R. Cashen
Posted Today, 07:50 AM

Phil, I can understand your grief, to give you an idea there was a time when $250 would have got me a 55 gallon drum of #50, and I used to sell off 5 gallons at a time for no more than $50 a pop to cover all of my costs. But alas Parks has become impossible to work with anymore. I would encourage you to find a phone number for Houghton and continue trying to contact them; their R&D and lab guy Dr. Mackenzie has assured me that they have products every bit as fast and even more stable over long term use. Your focus on an actual dedicated quench oil makes me want to help in any way that I can since the single biggest excuse other people have used, for not treating themselves to one of the quickest steps to consistent results, has always been the expense. From Grinders to epoxy virtually no bladesmith would hesitate to strongly advise top of the line products costing many times more than the cheaper alternatives but not so with something as critical as heat treating supplies. The flaws of such an argument was always easily pointed out until the whole Parks issue gave fuel to that line of thinking. This is why I am now steering people to Houghton since many of the products you can buy under other repackaged names come from them anyhow. I do realize that I am preaching to the choir here as you obviously get exactly what I am saying.

If you cannot get what you need through Houghton I would also suggest to you, or anybody else, to look through the yellow pages to find any supplier of oil products in your area. Outlets selling a wide variety of lubricating products will also have catalogs from countless companies that will also make quench oils, and that local outlet will have a much easier time ordering it and getting it delivered than you would. This is exactly how I found an unknown product years ago call Amoquench (give you two guesses who made it ;)) which worked quite well until I found more specific oils. Also don't forget places like MSC, Production Tool Supply and other industrial suppliers who will carry smaller quantities of quenchants. The quantity is really at the heart of the issue here, the folks who make these products make volumes most knifemakers do not comprehend and sell them to users who buy trucks, loaded with drums, at a time. These suppliers can lose money breaking open a drum and draining off 5 gallons at a time to sell to us. So either organizing ourselves into groups to buy drums, or saving up to get a lifetime supply ourselves will always be the easiest, and per gallon the cheapest, way to get the stuff from any supplier, even the local guys. This is exactly why we are at the mercy of other industries with our steel supply as well, a mill is just not going to waste time or money making a couple hundred pounds of steel for a knifemaker, so our only source are steel distributors who pull aside minuscule amounts from their inventory for serious steel users to sell to nickel and dime guys like us.


To make it easier for others reading this thread, I can also point out that while Parks #50 is one of the fastest oils, it is not necessarily the best choice for every steel. Each steel will have a corresponding category of quenchants they will work best in and the general rule is to use the quenchant that will give you most complete martensite conversion without over-stressing the steel, and in this pursuit the fastest is not always the best. I have a vat of #50 but never use it on many of the steel I work with because of its speed, instead I reserve it for 10XX series steels and W2 and use other quenchants better suited for O1, or L6.
There are generally three categories of quench oils – average quench oils, medium speed quench oils and fast quench oils. As bladesmiths we work mostly with the last two. Medium speed oils will fall in the 14-11 second range and will work fine for O-1, L6 5160, 52100, 8670M (Admiral L6) and other deeper hardening steels. Steels lacking alloying to the point that they need an oil in the 10-6 second range, the fast oils, would be W1, W2, 15n20, 1070, 1080, 1084, 1095. But even these steels may only require a medium speed oil if the smith prefers the soft back, in fact the medium speed oil will eliminate the headache of edge quenching by hardening only the edge in a more effective and safer full immersion of the blade.

Without going into the testing methods also remember that many of the oil speed measurements do not account for agitation, which will have a profound effect on the quench speed. The greater the agitation, either moving the blade or the oil the faster the quench speed.

I hope that all of these factors will help open up many more options for bladesmiths looking for quenchants and feeling trapped by just one company that has decided not to sell to them.
 
Phil , I have be using the McMaster Carr's car 11 sec on 1075 and 5160 both with great results at least testing hardness it came in at 67 RC before tempering. That said I was looking for the quench K for other steels. I did finally get the local distributor and the price for 5 gal was $ 175.00 plus shipping $ 20 to $40 ( I live in North Carolina ) so I was a little surprised. I will keep looking .....Steve Randall
 
12345678910 said:
Copy pasted Kevin's response

http://www.americanbladesmiths.com/ipboard/index.php?/topic/109-sourcing-a-fast-quenchent/

Kevin R. Cashen
Posted Today, 07:50 AM...
Click to expand...

Uhmm, I guess I should have also let it be known that another good reason not to retype my reply here is that this topic cannot seem to be discussed reasonably here, it tends to go about in the same direction as scrap mystery steel vs. known steel threads. So I just wanted to let folks know that I am not really involved in, and would prefer to avoid the topic here. If anybody wishes to discuss the exact topic that Phil specified in the other venue I will be happy to help there if I can.
 
Phil, bite the bullit and order the Parks #50. Or get Houghton. Or McMaster-Carr 11 sec. Or Canola for the easiest.... P-50 best, but it all works :)
 
if you amortize the cost of your oil out over the number of knives that you will be able to harden with it 250 or even five hundred dollars becomes a non issue.
 
Thanks guys. I'm hoping to hear back from Houghton International soon. I'll let you know how that goes. In the mean time I'll keep looking into the possibilities. All the best, Phil
 
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