Anti-Freeze quench????

T

Terry_Dodson

Joined
Jul 10, 2002
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I saw a post earlier that mentioned a user quenching in Anti-Freeze. Can anyone tell me the pros, cons, and possible problems quenching in Anti-Freeze? I use mostly 1080, 1095, 01, and 5160. Since some of these are oil hardening steels would Anti-Freeze hurt them (or possibly crack them)? I have been using sunflower and canola oil mostly for quenching and had good luck with them.
 
Terry, I believe I've read somewhere that the fumes from it when you quench aren't healthy. I'd leave it alone.
 
I doubt the fumes from really hot anti-freeze or petroleum oils or even veggie oils are at all "good" for you. Now that I think of it, how much really nasty stuff is in the fabled cloud of smoke from quenching in used motor oil? :barf:

I read that anti-freeze was used as sort of a half-way between water and oil... If the sunflower oil is working well for you, I don't know if an anti-freeze quench would make your blades any better. Might them harder and/or more brittle?
 
I believe anti-freeze is formulated to absorb and disperse heat very quickly. makes sense to me.............you don't want the liquid to hold the heat at all.

Some salt baths have the unique property of holding the heat, and that's why some smiths use them, I think. Those gel packs you put in the freezer for your ice chest have that property. (only holding the cold).

Anti-freeze acts like (and is) an alchohol bath. It really moves the heat away from the source to the heat sink. I would think this quench would act more like a sub-quench and get you a harder, more brittle result than any oil bath. However, if that's what you want, then there it is. I always quench in brine, but I have (up to now) only used the simple steels. I think I might go to oil whenever my blades aren't getting file hard at low temps (say, 1400*). Then I'd go higher, hold them longer, and use an oil. And I would definitely use an oil for the bigger blades........assuming I didn't have a precision furnace.
 
In the winter my shop is very cold so I have had to heat my quench water thats I dip my blades in as I grind them out.

Then this winter I started to use that anti-freeze winter winshield washer fluid as my quench water and it works great!

It's cold, but will not freeze up so I dont have to heat it just to get going in the morning. And as things go along with the grinding the quench warms up from all the dipping.
 
I was hoping Darren Ellis would be a Trackrock Hammering the other weekend so i could get some more satinite and possibly some quench oil, but i did not see him there. I may just have to place an order soon :D
 
I made a post at least a year ago about quenching in anti-freeze as an experiment. Yes, it worked great on the 1095 blades, but you have to stay away from that vapor when quenching. That crap ain't good for you. Also, after multiple quenches I wound up with a fire in the quench tank that was really difficult to put out.
It all added up to a big PIA. I've achieved the same results with brine and the right oils for the steel you're using. Your health is worth more than any blade you'll ever make. If you have to use it, do it outside and use a fan to blow the crap away from you. Be safe.
 
RUJOCO said:
I made a post at least a year ago about quenching in anti-freeze as an experiment. Yes, it worked great on the 1095 blades, but you have to stay away from that vapor when quenching. That crap ain't good for you. Also, after multiple quenches I wound up with a fire in the quench tank that was really difficult to put out.
It all added up to a big PIA. I've achieved the same results with brine and the right oils for the steel you're using. Your health is worth more than any blade you'll ever make. If you have to use it, do it outside and use a fan to blow the crap away from you. Be safe.
Click to expand...

Hey Rudy, I believe this was the post that I read. Guess I'm not full of **** after all.
 
"Guess I'm not full of **** after all."

Ray, I wouldn't know about that ;) But I'll take your word for it.:D

Only good thing I could say about the anti-freeze is that the scale popped right off in the quench. It was a PIA to secure so no kids or animals got into it. You can't just leave it laying around like brine. Did I mention the fire???
 
bodfish said:
I believe anti-freeze is formulated to absorb and disperse heat very quickly. makes sense to me.............you don't want the liquid to hold the heat at all.

Some salt baths have the unique property of holding the heat, and that's why some smiths use them, I think. Those gel packs you put in the freezer for your ice chest have that property. (only holding the cold).

Anti-freeze acts like (and is) an alchohol bath. It really moves the heat away from the source to the heat sink. I would think this quench would act more like a sub-quench and get you a harder, more brittle result than any oil bath. However, if that's what you want, then there it is. I always quench in brine, but I have (up to now) only used the simple steels. I think I might go to oil whenever my blades aren't getting file hard at low temps (say, 1400*). Then I'd go higher, hold them longer, and use an oil. And I would definitely use an oil for the bigger blades........assuming I didn't have a precision furnace.
Click to expand...


As a quenchent Anti freeze is much slower than water but faster than oil, if you you need to prove this point put 100 % anti freeze in you car, you will be suprized how hot it will run on a warm day. Anti freeze attributes are in that they dramaticaly raize the boiling point of coolent when mixed 50/50, reduce corrosion and lower the freezing point. That I know of there is no alcohol based coolents used in the automotive field any longer. Actually just the oppisite of alcohol.

Leon
 
RUJOCO said:
I made a post at least a year ago about quenching in anti-freeze as an experiment. Yes, it worked great on the 1095 blades, but you have to stay away from that vapor when quenching. That crap ain't good for you. Also, after multiple quenches I wound up with a fire in the quench tank that was really difficult to put out.
It all added up to a big PIA. I've achieved the same results with brine and the right oils for the steel you're using. Your health is worth more than any blade you'll ever make. If you have to use it, do it outside and use a fan to blow the crap away from you. Be safe.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you got a hold of alcohol based anti freeze, I have not seen any of that in years. Most anti freeze is ethelene glycol based and has a flamibility rating of 1 which is extremly low! The fumes are not good but are no worse than most oil quenchents. I use it for larger 1095 blades, but a interupted quench. It is to fast for small blades.

Leon
 
Leon,

I mixed a brand new gallon of Prestone with a another partially used gallon of the same stuff and added a half gallon of water. I quenched 3 blades in a row and the third lit it up. The fire was like plastic burning. The whole thing had about 3-4" orange and blue flame on it. Tried several times to smother it but it didn't seem to want to go out. Finally did smother it. The container was a new metal "pan" 14 x 20 x 4.

I haven't screwed with it since and I'm glad I did it outside in an open area. I didn't think A-F burned either.
 
Ethylene glycol based antifreezes have a flashpoint around 150F and an auto-ignition temp around 460F. It is most definitely flammable. While short term exposure to the vapors are not horribly toxic, the combustion products can be. Chronic exposure also has health risks.

In short, there are better choices for safety purposes.
 
For an idea on the properties of glycol, it can be substituted for glycerin in the formulation of nitroglycerin. Almost the same properties and dangers except that you have a harder time freezing for stable storage. Always be careful with "ordinary chemicals". They can have some nasty sides.
 
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