Anti-Freeze quench????

fitzo said:
Ethylene glycol based antifreezes have a flashpoint around 150F and an auto-ignition temp around 460F. It is most definitely flammable. While short term exposure to the vapors are not horribly toxic, the combustion products can be. Chronic exposure also has health risks.

In short, there are better choices for safety purposes.
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You will have a difficult time igniting Ethylene glycol. I have been working with this stuff for over forty years and I have never seen it ignite even with a direct flame when hot, read the MSD below. A darn site higher than oil.

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
COLORADO PETROLEUM
4080 GLOBEVILLE RD.
DENVER, CO 80216
REACTIVITY INFORMATIION _____________________________________________________________________________________ STABILITY: (CONDITIONS TO AVOID) Stable under normal storage conditions. Ethylene glycol will ignite in air at 775F (413C). INCOMPATIBILITY: (SPECIFIC MATERIALS TO AVOID) Oxidizing material. HAZARDOUS DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS: None known. HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION: Will not occur. HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION _____________________________________________________________________________________ EYE EFFECT: May cause slight transient (temporary) eye irritation. Corneal injury is unlikely. Vapors or mists may irritate eyes. SKIN CONTACT EFFECT: Prolonged or repeated exposure not likely to cause significant skin irritation. SKIN ABSORPTION EFFECT: A single prolonged exposure is not likely to result in the material being absorbed through skin in harmful amounts. Repeated skin exposure may result in absorption of harmful amounts. The dermal LD50 has not been tested. Repeated skin exposure to large quantities may cause significant skin irritation. INGESTION EFFECT: Single dose oral toxicity is moderate. Excessive exposure may cause central nervous system effects, cardiopulmonary effects (metabolic acidosis), and kidney failure. The estimated lethal dose for an average person is 100 ml. Single dose oral LD50 has not been determined. Amounts ingested incidental to industrial handling are not likely to cause injury; however, ingestion of larger amounts could cause serious injury or even death. INHILATION EFFECT: At room temperature, vapors are minimal due to low vapor pressure. If heated or sprayed as an aerosol, concentrations may be attained that are sufficient to cause irritation and other effects. SYSTEMATIC AND OTHER EFFECTS EFFECT: Signs and symptoms of excessive exposure may be nausea and/or vomiting. Signs and symptoms of excessive exposure may be abdominal cramps and/or diarrhea. Excessive exposure may cause irritation to upper respiratory tract. Excessive exposure may cause central nervous system, kidney, gastrointestinal, and liver effects. Observations in animals include formation of bladder stones after repeated oral doses of diethylene glycol. Observations in animals include kidney and liver effects and deposits of calcium salts in various tissues after long-term dietary intake of ethylene glycol. Repeated excessive exposure to one of the inhibitor additives has also caused adverse effects of the sex organs (ovaries, testes), pancreas, brain, and lung in animal studies. However, this material is present in small amounts and is not expected to appreciably add to the toxicity of the formulation. Based on data from long-term animal studies, diethylene glycol is not believed to pose a carcinogenic risk to man. Ethylene glycol and one minor component did not cause cancer in long-term animal studies. Screening studies in mice suggest that diethylene glycol does not affect fetal development. Ethylene glycol has been reported to cause birth defects in rats and mice given high oral doses, which were toxic to the mothers. Birth defects were also reported in mice at a high oral dose, which was apparently non-toxic to the
 
We seem to have conflicting sources, Leon. I pulled those numbers directly fromm an MSDS. However, here is a third.


http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/E5125.htm


5. Fire Fighting Measures
Fire:
Flash point: 111C (232F) CC
Autoignition temperature: 398C (748F)
Flammable limits in air % by volume:
lel: 3.2; uel: 15.3
Slight to moderate fire hazard when exposed to heat or flame.
Explosion:
Above flash point, vapor-air mixtures are explosive within flammable limits noted above. Containers may explode when involved in a fire.
Fire Extinguishing Media:
Dry chemical, foam or carbon dioxide. Water or foam may cause frothing. Water spray may be used to extinguish surrounding fire and cool exposed containers. Water spray will also reduce fume and irritant gases.
Special Information:
In the event of a fire, wear full protective clothing and NIOSH-approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece operated in the pressure demand or other positive pressure mode. Toxic gases and vapors may be released if involved in a fire.

I believe either I or the MSDS I originally quoted erred in the autoignition temp. MSDS data always seem to vary all over the place. However, the data seem consistent in claiming a relatively low flash point and dangerous degradation products.

I am not trying to debate you, but I urge any who consider this material to do their own reading and make an informed decision. Shoving a 1500*F blade into the material generates a cloud of vapor which bears informed use. The chronic (cumulative) effects read in the source you quoted are as important as any acute hazard.
 
fitzo said:
We seem to have conflicting sources, Leon. I pulled those numbers directly fromm an MSDS. However, here is a third.


http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/E5125.htm


I am not trying to debate you, but I urge any who consider this material to do their own reading and make an informed decision. Shoving a 1500*F blade into the material generates a cloud of vapor which bears informed use. The chronic (cumulative) effects read in the source you quoted are as important as any acute hazard.
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I do completly agree with that, but most quencing media is very simlar, as far as safety is concerned and should have the same considerations. DO NOT BREATHE ANY OF IT. A chemical resperator of the right type, a fan blowing the vapors a way from you, simply holding your breath for 30-40 seconds during the quench all help avoid the vapors.

Leon
 
Yes, I think quench oils necessitate proper safety precautions, too. As a departmental safety officer in a chemical plant, I was trained to always err on the side of caution about these things. The fact that the odor of burnt quench oil is still apparent in a closed room for minutes after one is done quenching indicates the need for both a respirator and exhaust fan. I say this respectfully, but I think the "hold your breath" is a bit too inadequate for my tastes. My take on saftey is that if you can afford to be doing the hobby at all, you can afford the safety equipment. Wear the respirator.

Best regards......
 
When used for quenching, are vegetable or peanut oil less bad for you? In terms of fumes, flammability, difficulty to extinguish, etc. Naturally, I'm reminded of news footage of trailers burned down by an out-of-control turkey fryer. :eek:

This may be a dumb question but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
 
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