Recommendation? Any downside to 3 HP motor?

I know that NRT only offers up to a 2hp 1800 with their packages and sets the vfd for double speed. I'm almost certain this is the route Travis chose on the TW90 also.
IMHO these are top shelf machines and the makers probably spent some time with r and d to get their reputations.
 
I am going to look for new sources with the 1800 RPM motor. I was about to purchase a bundle at a good price but 3600 RPM. I only want to do this once. Thanks for the info.
Just make sure you check the nameplate to make sure you're getting the claimed horsepower. Basically: 3 horsepower = 2237 watts. Multiply voltage * amperage (usually 230 * whatever the nameplate says it uses at 230) to get the actual wattage.
 
I know that NRT only offers up to a 2hp 1800 with their packages and sets the vfd for double speed. I'm almost certain this is the route Travis chose on the TW90 also.
IMHO these are top shelf machines and the makers probably spent some time with r and d to get their reputations.

The reason they only offer up to a 2hp, is because most beginner makers buying their grinders, don't know much about electrical considerations or machine tools in general, and this allows them to offer a default package that can be run on 110V (standard household current) input, or be switched to 220 with ease. Both of these grinders are only producing roughly 1.5hp when wired in the default 110v configuration.

It also would add substantially to the cost going from a KBAC 27d with a 1.5hp (which is very readily available in 56C configuration), to a KBAC 29 with a much harder to source and usually 2-3 times more expensive (off the shelf) 3hp 56C motor. Then, they have to deal with the support issues. I'm not sure about these particular vendors, but I know Wilmont, and some others offer 3hp options when asked directly. They don't advertise it, because it's not worth the trouble explaining all the infrastructure requirements to some beginner that has to have the "cadillac" option, but doesn't understand the caveats.

Many of the more advanced makers, and production outfits are running higher HP motors, because there are limits to 2hp, especially once you get more comfortable using much higher pressure, and/or utilizing premium ceramic belts that need a combination of extreme SFPM and pressure to fully utilize them.


I can pretty much guarantee you that if any experienced maker or shop called Northridge and asked them for a 3hp upgrade, they'd accommodate them.


I know of at least a dozen makers running Wilmont TAG-101s (myself included) with 3hp motors, who wouldn't step our primary grinder HP back down to 2hp under any circumstance.
 
Just make sure you check the nameplate to make sure you're getting the claimed horsepower. Basically: 3 horsepower = 2237 watts. Multiply voltage * amperage (usually 230 * whatever the nameplate says it uses at 230) to get the actual wattage.

That 2237 watts is for a 100% efficient motor, the typical electric motor will have a hard time reaching 90% efficiency.
 
The only thing I've noticed was at the speed of 0 on the dial it will stutter a bit but I would never grind anything that slow, I can hand sand faster!

-Clint

This is something you can typically fix with the trimpots inside the vfd. One, I recommend setting 0% to about 10% of total speed, and if you still get shuddering at certain speeds, typically you can fix this by adjusting the Slip Comp. You kind of have to do the last one while it's running though, so be careful, I've shocked myself a few times lol.
 
That 2237 watts is for a 100% efficient motor, the typical electric motor will have a hard time reaching 90% efficiency.
I am aware that what you'll actually get is going to be 85%, but sometimes the calculated value majorly misses the mark.
 
I hve no doubt that NRT and Travis would both upgrade to a 3 hp if asked. I was more commenting on their choice of a 4 pole motor over a two.
 
I hve no doubt that NRT and Travis would both upgrade to a 3 hp if asked. I was more commenting on their choice of a 4 pole motor over a two.


Ahh ok, I missed your point, clearly. Although I do try to discourage reverential "arguments" here. Just because someone, that seems to know what they're doing, does something, doesn't guarantee it's correct, or for the reasons we assume. It defers knowledge, and discourages learning also, don't you think?

Nothing personal, I'd just love to see us continue to encourage thoughtful inquisitiveness here, and respectful skepticism. Otherwise, we might as well just come to a consensus, on who the best maker is, and all just make the same knives, the same way as they do, right? I mean, obviously. Or I guess, even better, we can be homicidally divisive over which of two makers is the best, argue incessantly, have no respect for, and wish each other would fall in a hole and die, all the while feeling certain we've got it all figured out, and the others are clearly just idiots; like our current political culture. ;D Anyway, I digress and am mostly just fuckin witcha. :P
 
This is something you can typically fix with the trimpots inside the vfd. One, I recommend setting 0% to about 10% of total speed, and if you still get shuddering at certain speeds, typically you can fix this by adjusting the Slip Comp. You kind of have to do the last one while it's running though, so be careful, I've shocked myself a few times lol.

Thanks Javan. Ironically when I was looking for a photo for my shop renovation thread I found a copy of Rob Frink's tuning guide for the KBAC VFD and he mentioned what you are saying. I must have skipped that step!

-Clint
 
Ahh ok, I missed your point, clearly. Although I do try to discourage reverential "arguments" here. Just because someone, that seems to know what they're doing, does something, doesn't guarantee it's correct, or for the reasons we assume. It defers knowledge, and discourages learning also, don't you think?

Nothing personal, I'd just love to see us continue to encourage thoughtful inquisitiveness here, and respectful skepticism. Otherwise, we might as well just come to a consensus, on who the best maker is, and all just make the same knives, the same way as they do, right? I mean, obviously. Or I guess, even better, we can be homicidally divisive over which of two makers is the best, argue incessantly, have no respect for, and wish each other would fall in a hole and die, all the while feeling certain we've got it all figured out, and the others are clearly just idiots; like our current political culture. ;D Anyway, I digress and am mostly just fuckin witcha. :p

Yeah, I believe there's always a better way to do do everything. New materials, processes, and products will turn today's best into tomorrow's mundane.
I admit, I do have reverence for precision products and the folks who bring them to market. It's the ocd machinist in me hoping for perfection that can never be achieved.
I also have admiration for people who put in the effort, time, and resources to test AvsB, put bias aside, and give their testable conclusions on which is better. This is how we progress in just about every human endeavor.
As for politics, I'll ALWAYS be able to point my finger at someone and say "hey, you voted for that asshole." When it comes to my society, I just know that hundreds of thousands of people have sacrificed their very lives for what they believed was to give people freedom. I believe we should honor that sacrifice by allowing people as much freedom as possible.
Anyway, here's something from NRT's site.

Why the Motor Matters
Our background is high tolerance CNC machining, precision and performance is our goal. Before getting in the 2x72 belt grinder market we did a lot of research on what it takes to make a quality belt grinder, and what features are most important in a high quality knife grinder. By far the most important single component of the grinder is it’s motor. Without the torque to keep the belt running smooth and lag free it doesn’t matter how nice the frame is. Without solid bearings and an accurate drive shaft in the motor, it doesn’t matter how accurate your tracking and drive wheels are.

For this reason, one of the first things we did was to buy most brands of 2HP electric motors, both import and domestic, single and three phase, and put them through their paces to find the best options available. We will publish our testing results as soon as our initial rollout is complete and we get a little time, but in the meantime our main conclusion is buy American, specifically Leeson, Baldor, or Marathon.

Electric motors
The motors we supply are 2 horse power 1725/1800 rpm three phase 56c face mount 4 pole electric motors, and use a variable frequency drives (VFD) to convert from the 110v or 220v single phase power of a normal house or shop wiring to the 3 phase power the motor requires. At the same time the VFD gives smooth and accurate variable speed control. We chose the 4 pole motors despite there lower rpm because we can double their speed by increasing the hertz from 60 to 120 with the VFD and maintain full torque up to the original 1800 rpm of the motor with a slow drop off as it increases to 3600 rpm. But as you increase speed you gain inertia in the form of rotational momentum to help offset the loss of torque. Compared to a 2 pole 3600 rpm motor where you would lose torque throughout the entire rpm range rather than just half of it.

2 pole vs 4 pole
The standard AC motors that everyone is familiar with have 2 poles, that is two electromagnets on opposite sides of the motor. At any single point in time while the motor is running, one pole is north and the other is south. By alternating the poles back and forth, the changing magnetic field causes the motor to spin. The fields are switched twice per rotation, always trying to repel the close side of the motor’s armature while at the same time attracting the opposite side, in a constant game of tug-a-war. A four pole motor has twice as many magnetic poles, one every 90° instead of 180°. The same basic principles apply but instead of switching twice per rotation, the magnetic field is switched 4 times. This is like a game of tug-a-war with four ends to the rope instead of just two. Just like a 4 cylinder engine vs a V-8, the more poles a motor has the more torque it produces.
 
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