Any good knife stores in Toronto? I am thinking of checking them out........

Maybe we should set up a Bladeforums Scarborough brunch one weekend.

There is definetly something wierd about the pricing on the web pages but before you condem S&R please examine the following comparision.

Benchmade 910S
S&R $$145.00
Le Baron $149.94

Benchmade 330
S&R $100.00
Le Baron $108.94

Spyderco Rescue C14SBK
S&R $79.29
Le Baron $72.63

Spyderco Police C07S
S&R $144.84
Le Baron $124.63

Cold Steel Trail Master 16S
S&R $325.00
Le Baron $329.94

Cold Steel Master Tanto 13BN
S&R $260.00
Le Baron $264.63

All prices in Canadian dollars
S&R prices from thier web site
Le Baron prices from thier 1999 Spring/Summer catalog. (Note: Catalog is out of date and prices may have changed.)

Methodology: I chose 2 models from Benchmade, Spyderco, and Cold Steel at random from the Le Baron catalog. I then checked the S&R site for the comparable prices. The only model I chose specifically was the CS Trail Master since HJK had used it as an example.
 
allanm, you're also Scarborough?!? You're right, we should definitely do lunch sometime. I so rarely get the chance to talk about knives in person. It's all through BFC. As for the comparisons, interesting stuff. Prices are very close and there's no distinct winner. Guess we're going to have to compare first.

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ET



[This message has been edited by ET (edited 31 October 1999).]
 
I would highly recommend S&R. I bought a lot of my stuff from them when I was living in Toronto. They carry a lot of the better stuff (Spyderco, Cold Steel, Ontario, Benchmade) in stock, including some of the wierder stuff like Cold Steel's spears. Don't worry about being new to knives. They have in the business for a long time and know how to build up a loyal customer base by educating people like you and I. It is OK to tell them that you "just want to look today". After a few times in their store, you may start to recognize some of the other "regulars". They have stuff that most people do not reallize. Just ask. Deal in cash if you can. I found that it compared quite favorably with buying on the net, then adding shipping, customs, GST, PST and brokerage fees. You also get to "pick" the piece for smoothness of the action, fit and finish, etc. They will do special orders. They had a guy, Scott, who worked for them and dealt in customs, on the side. He had pieces from makers like Greg Lightfoot.

LeBaron is good for the less expensive stuff. The staff is not as knowlegeable as at S&R. It may be worth it to get one of their "LeBaron cards" if your total purchases in a year are likely to be substantial.

Ontario Sporting Supplies has some decent stuff. They are more "gun people". Look for the silver-haired guy with the vest. He seems to be the most knowlegeable. They do place orders for batches of Mad Dogs and Busses (I think).

Happy shopping!

Phil
 
Well, AllenM did what I should have done, which is compare Canadian dealer to Canadian dealer. I haven't double checked his examples because I'm sure he was accurate. I'm still upset about S & R's use of $US as a comparison to the Canadian numbers because it's inaccurate and misleading. You naturally think the numbers are a straight conversion using something approaching the current exchange rate. They aren't even close. Clearly you have to check on a knife by knife and dealer by dealer basis and not assume anything, even currency conversion. I agree that that's pretty sad.
What is even sadder is this: if the Canadian prices quoted by S & R actually are competitive with other Canadian dealers and the $US prices quoted are competitive with US dealers, then we Canadians are getting hosed in comparision to the US. The prices up here are, in the examples I looked at, substantially higher than can be accounted for in straight currency conversion. And that's before taxes. So we're being penalized in currency conversion, taxes and this unstated shipping, brokerage, god-knows-what premium too.
It looks like if you ever get the chance to buy in the states and eliminate the shipping, customs brokerage and taxes, you can save yourself alot of money and aggravation. What the heck happened to free trade anyway? Some US purveyors can do wonders thru the mail, don't ask me how. But the whole thing is so infuriating that, to tell you the truth, it was and is a big factor[but not the biggest] in my preference for custom knives and canadian makers. I'll take a Tichborne, or a St. Amour or a Piesner over a Cold Steel fixed blade any day. We've got many more first rate makers out there. [If something really special like Busse infi comes a long, well, mine are on order from Jerry]. [For low cost folders, production knives are still difficult to compete with]Although there is an increasing trend to price in $US, you don't get this nonsense where its one price to the Americans and for whatever reason canadians pay more, in addition to currency exchange. In fact, sometimes you can reverse the advantage, but that's another story.
I'd like to hear the purveyors explain the pricing. I still think the S & R Can/US inconsistency is problematic. If you do want to buy from them and the numbers are advantageous, try to buy in US funds. See what happens. I wonder what they do with US orders?
Re Ontario Sporting Supply, I have seen them have really good prices on some things and not so good prices on others. It depends on how good a deal they made when they acquired the stock. My last purchase there was a titanium emerson design BM folder. Perfect condition, better price than anywhere else I saw on the net[in those days, OSS had a web site]. My last time there I wanted to buy a CS master tanto for my son. For reasons I won't bore you with, I wound up buying it from LeBaron for a slightly better price. At OSS there is someone[sometimes] to talk to and deal with.At LeBaron, you're not talking to the owner, if you can get to talk to anyone at all.
I'll pay a little more for service and goodwill. If you're buying your first knife, don't let a few bucks get in the way of establishing a good rapport with a dealer: you'll make up those few bucks on another deal down the line. Me, I'll drive to the States or deal in the custom market to avoid being taken for a fool or ripped off, even if all the stores up here have the same ridiculous prices and even if it's not their fault.
 
I too like most of the retailers mentioned but Sean and Rodney have most of my limited business. Usually you can buy the knife at 20-25% off their marked price including taxes. Bring in a LeBaron's catalogue and they will beat the price by a few bucks. By the way, you missed a good kife show at the Day's Inn a week or two ago. There you can pick up a nice Ron Post user in cryo treated ATS34 for less than most production knives. I purchased a Dozier type drop point handmade in 52100 for $95 because of a tiny cosmetic flaw. Often the shoe is worth waiting for.

[This message has been edited by bansidthe (edited 01 November 1999).]
 
ET, A local get together would be terrific. The forums make a terrific community but it doesn't replace the personal element. The chance to show off our treasures and lust after the ones we don't have. The only thing will be to find a place that won't freak when the cutlery comes out.

HJK, There is definetly something wierd about the US prices listed on the S&R site.
 
I live west of Toronto and have bought knives at one time or another in all of the above mentioned stores. S&R knives is the most knowledgable and best stocked. It's the only store in Ontario where I've seen Sebenzas, Fallniven, numbered Spydies, William Henry along with the some customs. It would be a good choice for a first time buyer because the staff is more than happy to let you look at whatever knives you want to see. I don't mine paying a couple dollars more for that kind of service. LeBaron has some good prices but their staff don't have a clue and finding one of them to unlock the knife case (particularly at the Mississauga store) can be a challenge. Europe Bound on King West has some good prices on Spydercos and Leatherman but again they aren't focused on knives and the staff know very little about them.
 
ET,

Yup! Born and raised in Scarborough, can't wait to get out
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I would like to know price comparisons between buying a given knife from a Canadian retailer and purchasing from the US over the net, taking customs fees, GST, PST, exchange, higher US shipping prices, etc into consideration. I don't mind paying a bit more at a retailer for the opportunity to fondle the knives and take up the clerks' time, but if I already know exactly what I want, then I'd rather pay a bit less by purchasing over the border.

Re: LeBaron - I've been there many a time, and I've never been refused the opportunity to personally handle a knife. allamn, which store do you frequent? Granted, the selection is not too great, but I get to walk out with a knife, not wait a week for it.
smile.gif


To all fellow Scarberians - brunch sounds good in the near future..
smile.gif


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Shawn
"Earth has its boundaries, but human stupidity is limitless."

 
Here's a couple more comparisons that I did after physically going to LeBaron's today:

CS Master Hunter in Carbon V
S&R $90
LeBaron's $82

CS Recon Tanto
S&R $100
LeBaron's $84

CS Kobun
S&R $90
LeBaron's $96

BM 720 Axis
S&R $162
LeBaron's $160

They just happen to be items that I might be picking up in the future. That's about as scientific as my test went. Again, no real distinct winner but LeBaron's may have an ever so slight edge. What I really wanted to get was a CS Bush Ranger in Carbon V and an M2 AFCK but LeBaron's didn't have it. (Not even in the catalogue)

HJK,
Yes, we are getting hosed. We're purchasing American goods with a weak exchange. I can't believe I'm even collecting knives. I should be collecting snow or pieces of the Canadian Shield. As for the thing you were saying about customer service, I agree it's important but I'm not making a big salary and I'm willing to forego that top-notch customer service for rock-bottom prices. (At least to a certain extent).

AllenM,
I was thinking the same thing. There's no knife-friendly public coffee shop that you can go to. Even a park is a little iffy if people are walking by.

Shawn,
Ain't it the trute about Scarborough.
smile.gif
I'm moving to Markham or Yonge/Eglinton area as soon as I can. And did you say that you couldn't handle the knives at LeBaron's. I remember going there before and the guy gladly let me try some out. It was the Markham one since everything west of Yonge is a mystery land for me.
smile.gif


Also, who can add to Ontario Sporting Supply. HJK said a little about service and there was some talk about Mad Dogs and Busses. I was wondering if they carry Spydercos, Cold Steels and Benchmades and if their prices are comparable to the S&R/LeBaron's battle we have here.

------------------
ET

 
Swball
I wouldn't say I frequent it but the store I've gone to a couple on times is in Mississauga. It was a pain trying to find someone to show me anything I was looking for and the knife case was a non starter.

Without knowing which knife you are looking for it would be hard to say how the prices work out. Figure on the price of the knife plus shipping times the exchange (plus service charge if you will be using a money order), customs will charge duty if not made in the states plus GST plus $5 service charge. If it is shipped UPS expect another $35 (approx.) brokerage fee.

ET
I was the one that couldn't handle the knives at Le Baron (Mississauga store). I was in OSS about a year ago. They seem to be mainly firearms but had some knives. I remember spyderco and Benchmade and that the prices were fairly good. Might be worth a call.

I have just looked back through this thread and I am amazed at how civilized BF members are. It has stayed a polite conversation with people actually listening to each other rather than degenerating into a flame fest.
 
AllanM,
My mistake. Sorry about that. (Step 1: Read message first. Step 2: Start typing. Got it.
smile.gif
)

As for your experience at LeBaron's in Missassauga, yep, service is fairly dismal at the Markham one also. I once checked out a Spyderco something-or-other and the guy actually flicked it open HARD and handed it to me. What was I going to do? Give him a half-hour lecture on how to handle knives and present them properly to customers? And just today, I was asking some basic questions like do you have the CS Bush Ranger or Benchmade M2 AFCK and the guy had to go to the catalogue to see. He ended up showing me that they had the CS Bushman in the catalogue. :P As for the case thing, the Markham one works differently (I think). There's the wooden display case (cool case by the way) that you can look at but if you'd like to actually check one out, they go to the side and pull a fresh one out for you to look at. First time that happened, I was thinking "But that's a new knife, not the demo one." It's more of an arm-yourself-with-all-the-knowledge-you-can-and-just-go-in-and-complete-the-transaction sort of store. But despite the customer service problems, I keep going back because of one thing: money, or lack of to be more precise.

Since you say that OSS does have Spyderco's and Benchmade's at good prices, I will have to trek out there someday and take a look. Wish they had a website but I can't seem to find one at all unless someone knows otherwise.

Shawn,
I emailed Tom Lagan of LagaNet and unfortunately that address on Ellesmere is just a mail drop for Fällkniven. He suggested S&R for the actual goodies. Thank you Tom for letting us know.

------------------
ET

 
ET:

I replied to your email directly but for the others who where asking, I'm sorry but there is no public storefront. S & R and others carry the lines I distribute.

So far as visiting a storefront, it is probably the best trip you can make to establish a relationship with knowledgeable staff who can give you advice and help you develop your interest. Sure you may pay a little more for this service but try getting this kind of attention from the internet stores. There are much more expensive ways to learn about knives.

If you do arrange a meeting somewhere, count me in.

Tom
 
ET
I still buy other things at Le Baron, may try the Markham store, but I do most of my shopping from the catalog.

If you decide to try OSS it would probably be worthwhile phoning ahead. I remember they have some fairly strange hours and they are far enough out that you might might want to check what they have in stock.

I will be out of town for a few days but will check in when I get back.
 
I'll agree with allanm with regards to OSS's hours; I haven't actually made it out there myself, but I called once and was told they close at 4:00pm on weekdays.. ?? That was awhile ago, so don't quote me on that.
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Shawn
"Earth has its boundaries, but human stupidity is limitless."

 
It'll probably be a while before I actually go to OSS but thanks guys for letting me know about their wacky hours.

------------------
ET

 
Back in town and finally had a chance to stop in at S&R tobay. I talked with Shawn and asked him about the US versus Canadian prices on thier web site. The Canadian prices are landed in Canada and contain exchange, shipping and customs. The US prices are drop shipped from the supplier so the buyer pays the exchange, shipping and customs on top of the price on the web site. The difference in the conversion factors represents the different duties on knives.
 
I would like to add my endorsement for S&R Knives. I have found them quite knowledgable and they have quite a nice selection. They also gave my son his first knife "free". A future Knife Guy!

Ken
 
Hi Misko and All...

When you do get your new blade,, if your are interested I can build a custom concealex rig for it when and if you want....

I also back Pro Edge ,, he's got excellent blades and is also Canadian,,only down the road from you...

Have a look at my site and let me know if you are interested...
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
On/Scene Tactical

Thanks...

Eric E. Noeldechen

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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
 
This is sorta getting off topic but as long as it's got the attention of Torontonians: would anyone know the legality of expandable batons and where you could get one? I know that some LEO's do have them in Toronto but that's about it.

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ET

 
ET,

AFAIK they're illegal, but don't quote me on that. There's a list of illegal weapons listed at http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/knives/canada.html However, I know of a few places in Toronto that sell them.

DAMN, I just can't get links working properly today..


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Shawn
"Earth has its boundaries, but human stupidity is limitless."



[This message has been edited by swball (edited 11 November 1999).]
 
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