Any love for Schrade Old Timer slipjoints made in China>?

leghog said:
I find fair or better priced traditional slipjoints in good or better condition at gunshows all the time.
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I've heard great things about the gun shows about 3.99 feet east of 4 feet west of there. ;) I haven't been to a gun show recently but I haven't had much luck in the past.
 
pinnah said:
Tough issue demanding steady moderation. Thank you Gary and Frank for keeping things on an even keel. :thumbup:

I'll take a run at this without the politics.

IMO, a traditional knife is traditional if and only if it's tied to the traditions of the culture that produced it. When a traditional pattern is removed from the culture that produced the design, it's no longer traditional - it's simply a knock-off - a trinket.

This has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with a connection to roots. When I hold a Case Sodbuster, I'm holding a legacy of German immigrants who came to the US and brought their design with them. You can trace the legacy of the knife back through the factory and moves.

Take that same design and produce it in a different country... a cultural thread is cut. It's simply less traditional. Can you imagine a Finnish Opinel? A Spanish SAK? Not unless there was a compelling immigration story connecting them.

The Taylor-Schrades are, imo, in the same bin as the imported Buck "traditionals", the Rough Riders and Marbles. They feel like wraiths. The knife equivalent of the undead. They have no soul.

I carried a French Opinel today and cut tonight's potatoes with a USA Schrade H-15. I consider those Traditional knives.
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This is a very fine post. I would say it perfectly sums up how I feel as well, probably better than I even understood until reading it. I certainly could have never put it so eloquently. The overseas "New Timers" are very usable knives. They're just not the same.

One question though, was Rough Rider ever an American-made brand? Not sure I lump them in with the imported Bucks, Marbles, and Schrades. I was always of the impression they have always been china-made. Sure there seems to some attempt to be western/american-ish with the name, but I don't know that anyone was ever fooled. Am I wrong? In other words, should I be looking for "golden era" U.S. made Rough Riders?
 
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Woodrow F Call said:
IMO, I like the China Made Rough Riders..... I mostly have a problem with slapping an old American name on a what is essentially a different knife.
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This is kind of how I feel. I think they are probably OK knives, but I'm not attracted to them.

EJ
 
3-1-1 The rough riders are a brand started by Kevin pipes owner of SMKW. They have always been made in China until of late some are made in Pakistan, mostly RR fixed blades( how to ruin a good thing).
 
TLARbb said:
This is kind of how I feel. I think they are probably OK knives, but I'm not attracted to them.

EJ
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The Taylor company bought the name and rights from the Court after Schrade closed. They are the legal owners and have the legal right to used any of the names in the Schrade Walden Family. They are making a Solid product at a reasonable price.
 
deltaboy said:
The Taylor company bought the name and rights from the Court after Schrade closed. They are the legal owners and have the legal right to used any of the names in the Schrade Walden Family. They are making a Solid product at a reasonable price.
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"Legal" is not synonymous with "moral" or "ethical".
 
pinnah said:
Tough issue demanding steady moderation. Thank you Gary and Frank for keeping things on an even keel. :thumbup:

I'll take a run at this without the politics.

IMO, a traditional knife is traditional if and only if it's tied to the traditions of the culture that produced it. When a traditional pattern is removed from the culture that produced the design, it's no longer traditional - it's simply a knock-off - a trinket.

This has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with a connection to roots. When I hold a Case Sodbuster, I'm holding a legacy of German immigrants who came to the US and brought their design with them. You can trace the legacy of the knife back through the factory and moves.

Take that same design and produce it in a different country... a cultural thread is cut. It's simply less traditional. Can you imagine a Finnish Opinel? A Spanish SAK? Not unless there was a compelling immigration story connecting them.

The Taylor-Schrades are, imo, in the same bin as the imported Buck "traditionals", the Rough Riders and Marbles. They feel like wraiths. The knife equivalent of the undead. They have no soul.

I carried a French Opinel today and cut tonight's potatoes with a USA Schrade H-15. I consider those Traditional knives.
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This is great, and I agree with 3-1-1 3-1-1 - and it highlights for me two things conflated in this discussion.

Reading through this forum, being on the Porch long enough, you'll come to understand that Traditional here tends to mean slipjoints and the occasional lockback knives, in fairly timeless/classic patterns. There's no reason anybody on the globe can't learn to make a quality product in that style at various price points. That's why I personally won't disfavor a knife solely on country of origin. (Yes, we see trends on manufacturing quality/F&F, and on materials used, but it's not black-and-white as it maybe once was - exceptions exist on both ends of the spectrum.)

On the other hand, I have a sense that this forum is also very much connected to the stories and legacy of these knife patterns and brands - in essence, not a "traditional-style" knife, but a "traditional-made" knife. There's a lot to be said for that emotional connection. I grew up in Kentucky, but my family traces back to France (after about six generations or so), and I'm definitely sentimental for classic French kitchen and pocket cutlery. Some of us collect antique pieces, others collect new knives from places that have that long-standing heritage. That connection is strong, and there's something to be said for generations of manufacturing expertise (although there's no reason quality can't decline over time, too) - but that's not inherent to the physical knife itself, but wrapped up in how we feel about the knife.

That's where it becomes a point of preference. Businesses, economies, and markets change. Ownership changes hands. Directions are chosen and changed to try and keep a business open and growing. How we react to that is an individual choice, not one of inherent worth. Schrade closed its doors, the brand was bought by Taylor, and production moved overseas. Their current knives are part of the Schrade story, although definitely a very different chapter of that story.

All of that to say - I love their price, but I'm at a point in collecting where I need something with better edge retention than 8Cr13MoV or I'll lose patience with it. (Or in carbon. I'm a sucker for carbon steels. Go figure.) Buy what you like, carry it with pride, be happy, and watch not to get TOO caught up in the sometimes narrow lenses of any forum.
 
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