Any pansies here? Or those that hike/hunt/camp with them

dougo83

dougo83

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Feb 28, 2008
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I am taking some of my more sheltered friends, along with couple who can handle themselves, on a wilderness expedition in the next few weeks. These poor folks have been coddled their whole lives. I am trying to find a happy medium for the guys who love to hike and do so religiously, and those who consider 'roughing it' 'the time that the cable was out for two days'

Anybody here deal with these or have any ideas?

Thanks
PeACE
Doug
 
my family, and some of my friends are no woods-savvy...

my sister mostly through poor balance issues related to genetics, she has alot of trouble walking on anything besides pavement. my mom has never been too big into the woods, my dad and younger brother are both tech savvies that don't like to be without internet and cozy beds for an hour to two at most. my friends that don't hike are mostly ignorant about hiking, and wouldn't know where to start if i told them to come camping with me.

if i were going to try to go into the woods with a mixed group, i would advise driving somewhere and setting up a sort of base camp car camping style, with bug tent, inflatable beds, propane stove, etc. then from that take the whole group on long day hikes and expeditions one day, then everyone sleeps in base that night, then the woodsbums head out the next day for an overnight, returning the next day to basecamp. you can mix up the amounts of time that you split it up for (three nights in base, one night hiking/one night base, three nights hiking/etc)

just make sure while you are away hiking that the people that don't know what they are doing have plenty of firewood cut and split for them, so that they don't hurt themselves playing with the axe...and maybe hide all the sharp stuff just to be sure.

or just do two different trips, one for the sake of covering distance and enjoying the woods in a more connected way, another for the sake of bringing along extra steel and playing with new toys.
 
Thanks Sig
If it all pans out and they don't puss out, I will pack the camcorder so that all can enjoy watching them learn about the woods.

PeACE
 
Nope. But if you happen to find any, I hear they are a pretty good edible.

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Truth? Start by coming at it as a positive experience for them instead of telling them they are coddled and weak.

Boot camp is great for its purpose, but its purpose is NOT to instill a lifelong love of wilderness trekking.

You need to pretend you are introducing a 5 year old to the wonder of the outdoors but in terms that don't sound condescending to adults.

start easy. It's not fair to expect competence in gear choice or anything like that from a first timer- pick for LIGHT travel, and load up the more advanced people a bit more. Unless this is a "mutually solo" trip, you are for the space of your time out an intentional community. Stronger people carry a bit more, so that the newbies can build strength.

start with basic basic skills. For example, you need a knife that can cook FIRST and be used for bushcrafting lessons second.

Explain the heirarchy of needs, make sure everyone knows they have clothing and shelter and food, when you reach a campsite get the shelter up FAST, then lay out some snacks. That gives the basic mental feeling of security needed to enjoy things. (First thing you do with someone new to your unit is get them installed in a rack, show them where to shit shower and shave, and get them fed. NCO training, right?)

Don't go gear crazy. You spent years figuring out what you like, you can't just instill that in someone and make them a clone of you. Start them with minimal gear lists and let them grow by borrowing your cool tool for a trip and then deciding on their own.
 
If I were you, I'd really lower the challenge as much as possible. The sheltered folks are going to be in culture shock as it is. For a first time outing, I would literally not want to be out of sight of the vehicle, and I'd want to see how everyone does coping with the "woods" as well as checking out the chemistry between the "tenderfeet" and the "eagle scouts." In general, I'd play it very safe, I'd stress an "all for one and one for all" attitude, and I'd bring lots of extra toilet paper. My .02.
 
I agree w/ Koyote - if you ever want them to go out again, make it fun & easy the first few trips. Inexperienced does not equal "pansy", just as ignorant does not equal stupid.

Don't make everything a teaching point - pick a couple of things to focus on, but really try to make it relaxed & enjoyable (even if you end up pulling more than your share of tasks/weight/etc...). The more woods-savvy should enjoy just being out there, and hopefully will try to mentor the inexperienced.
 
Thanks for the tips. Luckily, the 3 who are not experienced have all expressed a desire to enjoy the woods like we 3 addicts do. We are al pretty close friends and have spent the last few years of college getting to know each other's personalities well...

One question: Should I have the more experience guys and myself pack in the bulk of the 'community' , for lack of a better term, gear and have the newbs pack in what they feel is necessary? We intend to take them to Academy to pick up gear. It is not going to be very intense, hence the going to a chain sporting goods store.

Also, I have no idea what to suggest for beginner gear. All of mine has been gathered, retrofitted, or discontinued. We are woing on establishing a few tips on what types of things they need and then letting them go at it.

I have my camping gear set and will try to inventory it later, I am getting ready for work at the moment. I know they will need more than we do. I am actually planning on buying a Pocket Rocket or two.

As far as teaching points, I will probably limit it to energy conservation, shelter, and maybe fire if they want to learn it. Land nav will be a focus as well since we are hiking.
 
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The 6 of us that will be going are all males between the ages of 21 and 27

We include:

Me: outdoors addict, 8 years of BSA, former VFF, hunting, hiking, camping, and fishing are my life. Experience includes climbing Ben Nevis, Mount Snowdonia, Pike's Peak, hiking the Grand Canyon. age 24

Bw: Hiked the Moab and hikes Pedernales Falls religiously as a mental getaway. No prior scouting, etc. Just damn good in the woods. age 22

Carl: Loves to hike/hunt. Spends weeks on end at his cabin, packs little food when he goes. Basically my idol in survival. age 21

Ben: Computer nerd that has saved my life many times for school. Also plays basketball all day long. age 26

Michael: Army brat. Doesn't really go outdoors except to skate. Age 27

Danny boy: The consumate athlete. Lettered in everything he could in high school. Maintained the physical shape through intramural sports and personal trainers. Age 22

The best thing I can see is that the 3 we are going with are in very good shape from their athletic ventures and know how push themselves. It will still be a little rough. I did this a while back with the ex-fiance, but she somehow managed to persuade me to give up on the hiking and such...
 
I'm not up to date on latest gear, so won't recommend any. You probably want to check their packs to see they're packed well, and don't have too much clothes or food(or too little food).
No matter what kind of shape they're in, if you're going any distance, and they're not used to hiking, that pack that they think is easily manageable at the trailhead can feel like they're toting an elephant a couple hours down the trail.
I don't go very often any more, and find myself suffering under loads I could have run with ten years ago.
Remember you've got to have or pump water for a larger group than you're used to, so may want a bigger, faster pump, and extra collapsible jug or something.
 
Maybe a talk on basic safety, poisonous plants and reptiles, not getting lost, etc.

Sounds like fun. I envy you your trip.
 
Basic first aid could be useful, maybe showing them some useful knots and what they are used for?

Never done this before but I think finding a balance between giving them a challenge and putting them off the outdoors will be the key.

:)
 
everyone gets a pack that WORKS, sleeping bag and a hammock or thermarest. (hammock people need a wool blankie)- tents/tarps are up to you, depending on how many people go in each.

personal first aid kit with personal additions.. Socks. undies. clothes. lockblade SAK with scissors (or something, I like the outrider) and a minimal fixed blade knife.

Pack mules carry extra food and water, the newbies should be able to handle their basic clothing/sleeping load out and a pound or 2 of food each.
 
dougo83 said:
The best thing I can see is that the 3 we are going with are in very good shape from their athletic ventures and know how push themselves. It will still be a little rough.
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So speaking strictly for myself, if I considered a hike to be "a little rough" given that I had as much experience as you do, and I am taking along 3 guys with zero or nearly zero experience and brand new camping gear...I'd have to say my plans were, to put it mildly, a bit high risk. Other than that, I'm giving it a big thumb up.
 
LittleHairyApe said:
So speaking strictly for myself, if I considered a hike to be "a little rough" given that I had as much experience as you do, and I am taking along 3 guys with zero or nearly zero experience and brand new camping gear...I'd have to say my plans were, to put it mildly, a bit high risk. Other than that, I'm giving it a big thumb up.
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I am not going to push them too hard. I think we may end up going to a local state or county park. That way they can have 'creature comforts' like shower, but they will be living in tents and we will probably day hike and do some basic woodland instruction that we 3 remember from Scouts and experience. I figure that is a good way to gauge what they can/cannot handle and still help them to appreciate the outdoors enough to want to go again. The comments thus far have definitely enforced 'baby' steps.'
 
Having introduced many people to backpacking/camping over the years, my experience has been that some people just do not like the outdoors, and some will take to it regardless of how they've been introduced. It never seemed to matter whether it was car camping or true backpacking (ie: just how 'outdoors' you are), leaving civilization, even for a weekend, doesn't appeal to certain individuals.

Specific recommendations:
-Short trip...3 days is what I do for first timers, with the option to cut/run on the second day.
-Go somewhere that you yourself are already familiar with. You'll want to be sure that it's going to be a good first trip.
-Go someplace that has something that's fun for anyone. Bushcraft might keep you or me occupied quite happily for days on end, but it might bore the pants off of many. Swimming opportunities tend to be winners.


Good luck!
 
Baby steps yes- reducing it to a park walk, no.

One of the reasons for baby steps is to give people a chance to enjoy, explore, and figure things out. You may end up with a birdwatcher and a basketweaver, and a flint knapper.

But while you have to balance the relative efforts and challenges, coddling as such isn't necessary :)
 
Consider:

Set up the rig in someone's yard. Go through why each item is important. Make a fire. Cook a meal. Measure how much water they use...make them notice. Make them notice how often they use the toilet. Make them notice what it takes to live...even in benign circumstances.

Immersion training is good for language skills. If you do a trial run for living outdoors, they need some "psychic preparation."

Should be fun.

Bring a med kit. :(
 
Ha! I camp and fish with a friend that wont even carry a knife while camping, let alone any other time. He says, "theres just no need for it".

I laugh when he uses his teeth to trim the knot on a 9 point Rapala. And I wonder what he would do if I wasant around to slice the bacon in the morning. Or cut paracord.

Oh wait, Ive just realized hes right. He has no need for a knife, hes got me.
 
They drink allot for some reason:D. More than experianced hikers. Make sure you pack them with more water than they think they i;ll need.
 
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