any problem with bm's HT of CPM-20CV ?

[filtrum]

the grips. 551, 556 etc. 940 kw exclusive. not found yet?

 

[bodog]

Reports of their M390 mainly say it's no better than S30V. M390 is basically the same as 20CV so the heat treatment they use is likely the same. That's a shame, too, since M390/20CV should show significant gains in wear resistance, toughness too, I believe.

This thread might get moved to the benchmade forum where you'll get the hardcore fan base saying everything from benchmade is great. If it's truly a burning question then you'll probably have to buy one and try it. If it makes you happy then keep the knife. If it doesn't, then sell it.

 

[craytab]

Reports of their M390 mainly say it's no better than S30V. M390 is basically the same as 20CV so the heat treatment they use is likely the same. That's a shame, too, since M390/20CV should show significant gains in wear resistance, toughness too, I believe.

Wow! Speculate with no evidence much?

I have one of the new grips and have had no reason to be concerned with the heat treat on the steel. I have used it a bit with no no need to resharpen. Don't listen to evidence-less speculation.

This thread might get moved to the benchmade forum where you'll get the hardcore fan base saying everything from benchmade is great. If it's truly a burning question then you'll probably have to buy one and try it. If it makes you happy then keep the knife. If it doesn't, then sell it.

At least in the BM subforum people don't hide what they are. Here in general there are fanboys and haters who just make stuff up. :thumbup:

 

[RevDevil]

Or people might earn infractions for being insulting and overly assumptive too.

 

[strategy9]

Reports of their M390 mainly say it's no better than S30V. M390 is basically the same as 20CV so the heat treatment they use is likely the same. That's a shame, too, since M390/20CV should show significant gains in wear resistance, toughness too, I believe.

Not necessarily so, the two, both well made, would not show "significant" differences at all, but rather subtle differences.

s30v: up to 0.4%% tungsten vs m390 0.6%
consider however that molybednum replaced tungsten in many steel alloy applications through the 20th century due to cost effectiveness and similar attributes, s30v has a full 1% more molybenum then m390/20cv

M390 has a bit more carbon, and significantly more chromium, s30v has a slight nitrogen boost with additional maganese to help offset those differences

So all in all, while they are different, both are loaded with carbides, and "similar" in composition, so the differences in 2 knives with equal edge geometry will be quite subtle more then significant, provided both steels are made equal in quality... The most significant will be m390/20cv should display more corrosion resistance, other then that it should hold a fine edge slightly better, a working edge a wee bit longer, while being a tad bit tougher, but hardly "night and day" apart from one another.

 

[bodog]

Not necessarily so, the two, both well made, would not show "significant" differences at all, but rather subtle differences.

s30v: up to 0.4%% tungsten vs m390 0.6%
consider however that molybednum replaced tungsten in many steel alloy applications through the 20th century due to cost effectiveness and similar attributes, s30v has a full 1% more molybenum then m390/20cv

M390 has a bit more carbon, and significantly more chromium, s30v has a slight nitrogen boost with additional maganese to help offset those differences

So all in all, while they are different, both are loaded with carbides, and "similar" in composition, so the differences in 2 knives with equal edge geometry will be quite subtle more then significant, provided both steels are made equal in quality... The most significant will be m390/20cv should display more corrosion resistance, other then that it should hold a fine edge slightly better, a working edge a wee bit longer, while being a tad bit tougher, but hardly "night and day" apart from one another.

Fair enough. I think M390 would be very good for most people unless the manufacturer screwed it up somehow, even if the manufacturer left a lot on the table performance wise.

 

[bodog]

Wow! Speculate with no evidence much?

I have one of the new grips and have had no reason to be concerned with the heat treat on the steel. I have used it a bit with no no need to resharpen. Don't listen to evidence-less speculation.



At least in the BM subforum people don't hide what they are. Here in general there are fanboys and haters who just make stuff up. :thumbup:

Troll much? Good job keeping it where it belongs. Pretty blatant violation.

 

[Ankerson]

There has been much improvement in the HT process of M390 over the years in production knives from what I have personally seen.

The latest examples of M390 I have seen from BM have been excellent from my own testing.

M390/CTS 204P/ CPM 20CV are all similar, but not the same as far as HT goes.

 

[bodog]

There has been much improvement in the HT process of M390 over the years in production knives from what I have personally seen.

The latest examples of M390 I have seen from BM have been excellent from my own testing.

M390/CTS 204P/ CPM 20CV are all similar, but not the same as far as HT goes.

Good to hear. When did the improvement happen?

 

[Ankerson]

Good to hear. When did the improvement happen?

Not all that long ago, whenever they changed HT companies.

Whomever is doing it now knows what they are doing, BM is using a lot more of high alloy steels these days.

 

[bodog]

Not all that long ago, whenever they changed HT companies.

Ah, so there was a recent total change in who they have heat treating their stuff. Didn't know that. Good to see them working to improve their stuff. For the longest time they left a lot to be desired, at least from what I saw. It's been a couple of years since I've even considered a BM. If they have better performance that may change my mind at some point. Thanks for the info.

 

[Ankerson]

Ah, so there was a recent total change in who they have heat treating their stuff. Didn't know that. Good to see them working to improve their stuff. For the longest time they left a lot to be desired, at least from what I saw. It's been a couple of years since I've even considered a BM. If they have better performance that may change my mind at some point. Thanks for the info.

BM is no joke, they continue to improve and push performance.

 

[craytab]

Thanks to Ankerson for clearing up the blatantly misinformed and inaccurately assumed speculation.

 

[Ankerson]

Thanks to Ankerson for clearing up the blatantly misinformed and inaccurately assumed speculation.

Spyderco and BM are the ones to really watch, both continue to push the bar higher. :thumbup:

 

[M. Johnwell]

I actually just did a Rockwell test on my m390 mini Ritter and it came in at 57. It holds an edge better than s30v, but only marginally so. However, it is possibly the easiest knife I've encountered to sharpen and is quite tough, so I'm not exactly complaining.

 

[bodog]

I actually just did a Rockwell test on my m390 mini Ritter and it came in at 57. It holds an edge better than s30v, but only marginally so. However, it is possibly the easiest knife I've encountered to sharpen and is quite tough, so I'm not exactly complaining.

That seems in line with what I've seen and heard but maybe when they swapped to 20CV they improved their heat treatment, too, like what Ankerson was talking about.

 

[craytab]

Spyderco and BM are the ones to really watch, both continue to push the bar higher. :thumbup:

I agree 100%. these new grips really take the design beyond the next level. And have you seen the 665 APB when it is deassisted? The lock is a an engineering marvel (okay, not quite but still impressive) and it is easier to operate than the traditional axis lock.

 

[bodog]

I agree 100%. these new grips really take the design beyond the next level. And have you seen the 665 APB when it is deassisted? The lock is a an engineering marvel (okay, not quite but still impressive) and it is easier to operate than the traditional axis lock.

That's a nice looking slip joint under the bradford.

 

[Ankerson]

I agree 100%. these new grips really take the design beyond the next level. And have you seen the 665 APB when it is deassisted? The lock is a an engineering marvel (okay, not quite but still impressive) and it is easier to operate than the traditional axis lock.

Interesting looking.