Any traditional knife lovers like non-tradional alloys?

I might be a steel snob. I have knives in several price ranges and steels. I like to try different steels just out of curiosity. From my basic understanding I like to try steels out with different size carbides.

With traditionals i tend to just want a thin blade stock though. Its slicing ability puts a smile on my fave every time it out slices one of my moderns.
 
I am a fan of most steels. Queens D2 is great. I wish it came thinner behind the edge. I wish GEC offered it with their great thin grinds. I have ats34 from S&M and like. I have CPM 154 on a custom from J. Oeser, and really love it.

I would like to see GEC offer their 01 in more models, and switch the stainless they use to D2 or CPM154, etc. I really like Opinel's inox, frankly and consider it an upgrade.

I'm not really snobbish, just like having higher edge retention, and options.
 
Nonsense. Alloy preference doesn't have anything to do with being a "snob".

"Steel snob" is a derogatory term.

Derogatory terms are not used in the Traditional Forum. No matter if directed internally or externally. They are unfriendly.

You can talk about "modern alloys". You can talk about "alloy preference". I used "non-traditional alloys" when I changed the title.
 
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I believe I've come full circle and backwards on this particular discussion :o Growing up in scouts I always had some sort of traditional folder or SAK with me. I loved using knives then just as I do now only back then blade steels didn't exist to me other than some were dull looking or shiny. In my college days I researched blade steels which is what led me to bladeforums in the first place. I loved the latest and greatest steels but only recently started picking up my traditional knives again. I didn't realize how many case and SAK's I had in my closet that vastly outnumber my modern folders. I like the ease of use and sharpening of the more "simple" steels and with a cheaper price point I'm not afraid to put them to use.
 
knarfeng said:
Nonsense. Alloy preference doesn't have anything to do with being a "snob".

"Steel snob" is a derogatory term.

Derogatory terms are not used in the Traditional Forum. No matter if directed internally or externally. They are unfriendly.

You can talk about "modern alloys". You can talk about "alloy preference". I used "non-traditional alloys" when I changed the title.
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I meant no offense by the term steel snob and would not want to direct a derogatory term to anyone here. I see your point and I apologize. So from now on non-tradional alloy it is.
 
I like premium steels for a few reasons. First, the ones I choose are very rust resistant. I don't want to pay good money (>$125) for a blade and have it rust or pit. I can be a sweat hog and stupid (e.g. forgot to wipe off a D2 queen toothpick after fishing pickles out of a jar.) Second, they take a good finish and stay that way...don't want no ugly knife. Third, compared to most 1095 and regular stainless, they hold a edge longer...I'm lazy.
 
I'm always interested in trying new steels, or more accurately owning new steels. I don't use any knife enough to notice it dull very quickly and my sharpening skills are floundering so I can't really appreciate any qualitative differences. I'm still driven to buy them though. :confused: It might be carry-over from my modern folder interest.

I recently picked up two queen knives, one in BG42 and another with Sandvik 12C27. Those aren't 'super'steels but I believe they're nontraditional enough and BG42 was previously used by Chris Reeve. Unfortunately the BG42 blade was so overground in factory I'm sending it right back to the seller.
 
On a production folder, I'll take 1095 over 440C. I've only owned a few 440C knives in the past and had a hell of a time getting an edge I liked on them. Could've been heat treat, I'll never know.

On a custom knife, the makers I've ordered from typically use ATS34 or CPM 154 so no worries. If that's what they make their knives from, I'm good with that so long as fit and finish of the final product meet or exceed the asking price.

I generally prefer a steel that is easy to sharpen rather than holds an edge forever but requires a major operation to make sharp again.
 
I have been a steel snob in the past and that Northwoods Indian River Jack keeps calling my name. I DO like the newer stainless steel but my GEC with its 1095 steel and thin blade has worked much better than I would have originally thought
I would still like to see more traditionals offered with modern stainless steels.
 
I don't think I have a preference for non-traditional steels in my traditional knives although I do have a few in modern steels. Mostly on my customs. Or maybe I do have a preference... I guess the question is if you have your favorite pattern X in traditional steel A or super steel B and you can only get one, which would you get? I think I'd probably get super steel B. But is that because its super steel B or because I already have knives in traditional steel A? I can't say for sure.
 
I'm old enough to have owned both 2 spring and 3 spring Buck stockmans and even though there are probably folks who don't consider a 3 spring traditional. I happen to believe it's the stronger design while still remaining a traditional stockman. It doesn't mater if the handle is Derlin, Jigged synthetic, smooth bone, jigged bone, antler, Ivory or wood, as long as it remains true to a traditional pattern it's a traditional. 1095, 420HC, D2, CPM154 are just variations of the theme.

It's good to have the steel choices we have today, it can only spur further interest in the traditional knives.

So if I can get both fit and finish and a modern steel in a traditional pattern why not. Fit and finish is important but the functional ability of the steel is just as import to me. I'm willing to bet if my grandfather had a choice he would not have dismissed stainless as non traditional. It all depends on what you want and expect out of a knife.
 
Hard to answer.
First thing is, what do you consider "traditional alloys" and not. Some carbon steels have been used for ages, while others are pretty new and uncomon...and even though stainless steels are more recent, some of them have been around long enough (longer than patterns that we consider "traditionals" without a second though).
Now, if ee talk about "traditional alloy" meaning the alloys currently used for slipjoints, and "non traditional alloys" to define the steels not used by traditional factories, that's a different point of view.
Personally, I tend to prefer stainless steel (although I have no trouble with carbon steel:)); I love my CPM-154 custom knife, and as a general thought I think that Opinel's 12c27 should be the standard steel for traditionals (takes a great edge with not much effort, holds it long enough - for my use - and is also inexpensive).
Would I try Elmax on a slipjoint? Why not.
Am I ok with the steels currently available? Yes. I just wish that GEC offered all their patterns in 440C, and that Victorinox upgraded to 12c27 :rolleyes:

Fausto
:cool:
 
skipper51 said:
........So if I can get both fit and finish and a modern steel in a traditional pattern why not. Fit and finish is important but the functional ability of the steel is just as import to me. I'm willing to bet if my grandfather had a choice he would not have dismissed stainless as non traditional. It all depends on what you want and expect out of a knife.
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This is where I'm at. I grew up with carbon steel and have seen my share of rusted knives. When the stainless steel got better I was glad to gravitate towards it.

I'm also a fan of Crucible Steel, as it's made in my town and I used to do contract work with them. I can buy nice knives in CPM-154, 154CM, D2, CPM-D2, S30V, CPM-S30V and others and know that some of that coin is coming back home. :thumbup:

(OFF TOPIC) From Crucible's website:
"Crucible's roots trace back to 1776, when the Naylor and Sanderson Steel Mill was established in Sheffield, England. A century later, the company – then known as Sanderson Brothers - was exporting increasing quantities of tool steel to America and it was decided to establish a steelmaking plant in Syracuse, New York."

I've got nothing against carbon steel. To each his own. Most of my fixed blades are forged 1084 and carbon Damascus.
 
pinnah said:
I have a question for the steel snobs...

What is the major attraction for you? Is the less frequent sharpening? Or is the pleasure gained from owning and using the most technologically advanced blade? Or is it something other?
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The attendant, underlying silliness that lives within these threads is that if you don't prefer a carbon steel that has been in wide use a basic tool steel for well over a hundred years, you must like super steels. ???? Along with of course, what can your new fangled steel do that great Grandpa's couldn't?

I am a blue collar guy that works with tools. I always go for the best performer in my tool selection with an eye on price. I started in the trades driving nails, but now use a nail gun when possible. It is faster to use, and today's guns require very little maintenance (connecting the dots?) to do a perfect job of shooting thousands of nails.

I use carbide tipped blades. Again, when I started out as a carpenter's helper, there were only steel blades. But carbide blades showed up. They weren't that good, and it took about three different iterations of the carbide and better manufacturing technique to get the blades to where they were serviceable and affordable. Carbide (C3) blades go for hundreds of cuts without sharpening and little cleaning. Low maintenance, the fact they stay sharp for 30 to 50 times (in my experience of using them for years) make them a must for a working tool. And try to find a steel blade now...

pinnah said:
It's all good. Paraphrasing Pirsig[1], quality is whatever produces peace of mind. Just wondering what peace of mind looks like with super steels.
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Peace of mind looks like a guy that tosses his sweat soaked pants on the chair not worrying about drying off the blade or putting some oil on it to keep it from rusting. Or have it rust in your pocket after a long day's work when you sweat through your jeans by 9:00am. (I know there will be immediate posts from those that have never seen carbon steel rust, but it is now hitting 100 F during the day, and that that is my experience for this time of year.)

Peace of mind is knowing you don't need to touch up you work knife every few days as I did for too many years with my carbon CASE knives. Peace of mind is knowing you can cut some really abrasive material, a wire, or filthy materials without ruining your edge for the entire day. Peace of mind is knowing you can keep a piece of stiff cardboard in your truck with green compound on it to immediate refresh the edge as needed on D2, 440C, 154cm, S30V, and others. BTW, I don't consider any of those old horses "super steels".

In fact, I don't think I know what a super steel is to me. There are innovations, there are advances, there is change... but as always, it someone can show me a better way or a better product I will certainly listen. Not all are good ideas, not all work out, and not all are helpful to me. But if innovation helps me by being a better tool, I am on board. I don't know why taking advantage of advances in metallurgy would make me a snob... heck, I drive a 10 year old Ford work truck and wear blue jeans to work.

I don't hand write (and then mail) letters to my out of town friends (a lost art!), I use email. I don't use a film camera (some still claim its superiority), but changed to digital about 15+ years ago. I don't type my work contracts on a typewriter, I use a computer, a laser printer, and email them as a pdf. I don't have a land telephone line to my house, as my cell has many more options, features, and updates itself as needed for ease of use and security (low maintenance, better utility value).

Yet I don't feel like a snob, or even a connoisseur of any kind. Just a guy that embraces a good, solid, quality advances in technology and products.

pinnah said:
Second question... Do modern diamond stones pretty much eliminate the problems with sharpening or are true super steels hard to deal with even with Diamond stones?
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I have many different kinds of steels in the knife drawer, all the way from mysterious stainless "Taylor brand, USA" which is somewhere along the lines of a couple of points higher on the Rockwell scale than lead, to Kershaw's incredibly hard, incredibly abrasion resistive S110V.

All of them I sharpen (including the above mentioned steels) on a regular Lansky system, with one exception. The S110V made me give up on it after about two hours of trying to reprofile my Kershaw Shallot. I went to a coarse grit diamond rod, then an extra fine grit diamond rod, then back to the Lansky, then to the strop to finish. Never, ever have I sharpened anything that hard or abrasion resistant. This knife is the point of diminishing returns for me; it literally isn't worth the hassle as an EDC, even though it rarely ever needs sharpening.

Robert
 
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skipper51 said:
So if I can get both fit and finish and a modern steel in a traditional pattern why not. Fit and finish is important but the functional ability of the steel is just as import to me. .
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For as much LOVE for the carbon steels there is here, I don't think I've ever seen one of the fine handmade customs here in anything BUT some sort of stainless. Oh, I'm sure there is a thread or two, LOL....just sayin''
 
I am double minded.

I love, love, LOVE my 1095 steel knives from GEC. I love the patina. I love the edge (mine, not theirs). I love the ease of sharpening. I love it all.

AND

I love the modern alloys. I especially love trying to marry them with traditional knives. Sadly, that is pretty difficult to get working these days. When I buy a modern folder, I love experimenting with various steels. I love the edge holding. I love knowing the kind of technology built into the materials. I use my knives, so I just plain love the performance.

I am actually happy to have and do have and use both.
 
+1, Derrick, well said. BTW, my avatar knife has an ATS-34 blade, but it's a custom.
 
For me it came on out of necessity. I was out using my pocket knife as a work knife all day. The steels would not hold up and I had to take my pocket stone along. Like it wouldn't cut anymore unless I sharpened it. I tried CPM-M4 and I could make it days, not hours. Thats why for me. Now since I have backed into more office work and less work work, I fall back in love with the simple carbon steels and natural stones. I never condemn options :)



pinnah said:
I have a question for the steel snobs...

What is the major attraction for you? Is the less frequent sharpening? Or is the pleasure gained from owning and using the most technologically advanced blade? Or is it something other?

It's all good. Paraphrasing Pirsig[1], quality is whatever produces peace of mind. Just wondering what peace of mind looks like with super steels.

Second question... Do modern diamond stones pretty much eliminate the problems with sharpening or are true super steels hard to deal with even with Diamond stones?

[1] - I'm pretty sure Pirsig carried an Opinel.
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BTW, anyone who knows me will know, I KNOW traditional steel can take REAL HARD WORK. So that wasn't my point. I was using it for something a normal tradesman would go through about 15-20 disposable blades in one day for. Things that would kill an edge in one cut.
 
For a thin whittling blade 1095 might qualify as a super steel. The thin blade and thin edge need toughness in an alloy. A thin blade profile that can resist warping under pressure may require a hard steel. My first choice for a lot of traditional pocket knives would be 1095--like my old stockman. If I carry the knife everyday I lean towards stainless. My Victorinox SAK stainless has never failed me. It is an extremely practical alloy. If I were to upgrade I like BG42. It takes a better edge and is pretty tough. I have a couple Buck Master Series lockbacks that are my super pocket blades.
 
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