Any update on Cam's status?

They owe me money too for knives produced but I doubt I will ever get it.
 
in my opinion they have and still make decent knives for your money , i called them a month ago for a catalog and was talking to the lady about their sportsman set with a trapper with buckstag handles, i wanted it. but she told me it was foreign made along with their melon testers, which i wanted , they still make alot of their pocket knives in the usa, still in the same general new york area, but overall they make good using knives. ive been wanting to buy a buck stag pony jack knife but for some reason they arent that easy to find.one final thought, theyve been in the cutlery business since the early 1900s, they must be doing something right.
 
Man, you people sure are really into this Camillus big time. And where are all of you getting your facts????????? It looks to me as the UNION is on a DEATH HUNT. Unions are a two fold. The good side that is there for their members and the vindicative side. Believe me both sides do exist, you just have to have your eyes, ears and mind open and it will show itself. But it is not just Unions but everyday people. How do you think people of power get where they are. Two wrongs never make a right.
This is America and we all have our freedom to express ourselves, but when we go far beyond that... well let's just say sometimes it gets out of hand. I am not one to say that the Union does or doesn't have a right to speak their mind, but it is suffice to say that what is being said is starting to sound out of whack.
Apparently there are a great many factors involved in this situation that have or have not been given much thought. I can see that Camillus itself has not given any response to this whole affair, but time will tell if there will be one. If you look at Camillus as a human being - you are putting them out there to make a mockery of.
 
observerq said:
If you look at Camillus as a human being - you are putting them out there to make a mockery of.
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I wouldn't say that.

You started the medical metaphor, I'll finish it.

I heard of the patient being ill, possibly very ill. So, I asked the question, and got a number of responses from men on the street, as it were. One report from a unioner, call it a family member. What I still haven't heard from is the patient.

I wouldn't say a death hunt. I'd say along the lines of we heard they were sick, and want to know how they plan to heal.
 
Sword and Shield said:
I wouldn't say a death hunt. I'd say along the lines of we heard they were sick, and want to know how they plan to heal.
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I was not sure how i wanted to word this, but you put in better terms of what is was looking to say. Thank you.:)
 
observerq said:
Man, you people sure are really into this Camillus big time. And where are all of you getting your facts????????? It looks to me as the UNION is on a DEATH HUNT. Unions are a two fold. The good side that is there for their members and the vindicative side. Believe me both sides do exist, you just have to have your eyes, ears and mind open and it will show itself. But it is not just Unions but everyday people. How do you think people of power get where they are. Two wrongs never make a right.
This is America and we all have our freedom to express ourselves, but when we go far beyond that... well let's just say sometimes it gets out of hand. I am not one to say that the Union does or doesn't have a right to speak their mind, but it is suffice to say that what is being said is starting to sound out of whack.
Apparently there are a great many factors involved in this situation that have or have not been given much thought. I can see that Camillus itself has not given any response to this whole affair, but time will tell if there will be one. If you look at Camillus as a human being - you are putting them out there to make a mockery of.
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My, but you paint with a mighty broad brush, observer. The forum members who are also employees and union members are just reporting here what they are being told, what they have seen, and their opinions. Some of us knife collectors/users are posting our opinions, including cautions against a premature obituary. Naturally, all us us have some stake in Camillus' survival. No one wins if they close up shop for good, not the workers, not the management, not the owners, and certainly not those of us who like Camillus knives, much less the American people at large.

In this complicated situation, it is only common sense to try seeing all sides of the issues surrounding what is admittedly a crisis for Camillus. Yes, the workers have been in limbo for a long time waiting for the other shoe to drop, either go back to work and support their families, or go on unemployment until they can be retrained or relocate for another job.

The collectors/users of Camillus knives are concerned that one of their favorite brands will cease to be made in America, and there will be no warranty or repair available for their knives, or chance to buy patterns they had put off buying.

We hear the worker's side, but the company isn't talking. We've heard from their custom designers, but the company is mum and their royalties are not being paid. Even the media cannot get anything from them, and they aren't taking care of their commercial customers, i.e. Cold Steel, etc. who are pulling accounts and machinery by their own statements.

The strike, which with refusal to negotiate in good faith appears to be a defacto lockout, now moving into it's third month, and the company having stated over two months ago that it was in dire straits, things do not look good.

I still have hopes of a turnaround, I hope the employees can go back to work, I hope Camillus Cutlery is around for another hundred years, but I'd not bet hard cash on it at this point. I hope they make me sorry I didn't bet on it.

Codger
 
Anything is possible, but I think it has gone on for to long, to much debt and with to many customers lost to make a comeback.
As someone else said, I hope they just go away, rather than go the China.
 
To All,
It's sad to think that the union would be taking the blame considering that they did not want a death hunt and did not start this mess into motion. Has anyone considered that they didn't want us back ( even though the bank did because of the debt and that we were very capable in making money for the company)? Again a lot of dirty little secrets. Also I'm not the biggest fan of unions ( even though I'm in one ) I know that any org. can be corrupt. What I do not and will not do in any situation is to lie and be kicked in the head!! We tried as employees to help this company, that held our own financial lives in their hands, to thrive and stay alive!!! No-one at our ages (some close to retirement) wanted to start over again. Many had close to 30 years or more into the company.Many went out of their way to do things for the company to improve. Out of 78 union 21 have found better jobs. I was number 21 and will start my new job August 14th. I'll be on the second shift so that if I choose, I can go to school during the day. I'm not one to wait around for things to happen. Three months is too long! They have lost so much. I'm sorry to see this company and it's customers lose 130 years of beautiful knives. Alot of my fellow co-workers were and still are close friends. They feel the way I do. A lot of them do not have health insurance and do not know what the future holds.
Management are still hanging on and have not been told anything about what to expect. It's a day by day misery for them also.
For the sake of those workers and customers/suppliers I wish the best!!
 
HunterH said:
To All,
It's sad to think that the union would be taking the blame considering that they did not want a death hunt and did not start this mess into motion. Has anyone considered that they didn't want us back ( even though the bank did because of the debt and that we were very capable in making money for the company)? Again a lot of dirty little secrets. Also I'm not the biggest fan of unions ( even though I'm in one ) I know that any org. can be corrupt. What I do not and will not do in any situation is to lie and be kicked in the head!! We tried as employees to help this company, that held our own financial lives in their hands, to thrive and stay alive!!! No-one at our ages (some close to retirement) wanted to start over again. Many had close to 30 years or more into the company.Many went out of their way to do things for the company to improve. Out of 78 union 21 have found better jobs. I was number 21 and will start my new job August 14th. I'll be on the second shift so that if I choose, I can go to school during the day. I'm not one to wait around for things to happen. Three months is too long! They have lost so much. I'm sorry to see this company and it's customers lose 130 years of beautiful knives. Alot of my fellow co-workers were and still are close friends. They feel the way I do. A lot of them do not have health insurance and do not know what the future holds.
Management are still hanging on and have not been told anything about what to expect. It's a day by day misery for them also.
For the sake of those workers and customers/suppliers I wish the best!!
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very well put. ahgar
 
Good post ahgar. Good luck to you and you co-workers, i hope the best for all of you.

It's hard for us enthusiasts who aren't in the business to know what is really going on. There seems to be so much speculation, and several different stories/angles on the situation. I guess I'll just hope for a happy ending for all.

(And I'll try to obtain the Beckers I always wanted but haven't gotten around to getting!)
 
ahgar said:
the actions by management could very well be a play to bust the union, especially since the company asked for concessions earlier{unreasonable concessions} management could play the role of the victim of union demands. however another even darker idea on the part of management could be to simply move all production to china in order to make bigger profits.
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This is a perfect storm. No one is clean. The owners are not smart enough, nor courageous enough to bust a union. So, there is no plot there. However, the union echelon (non-plant, of course) threw fuel on the fire by asking for raises, more days off, and other idiotic things. The union official even stated that he didn't care what happened because even if the employees would lose their jobs, he would still keep his. Nice guy! Regarding chinese goods, the owners were too cheap to pay for imports. However, they had no qualms in ordering parts from American manufacturers, knowing they were not going to pay them. I think too much credit is being givent othe owners for deviousness. They are not that smart. The union did not help. Rather than working with management on how they could help to keep the company alive, they were very arrogant....hence the strike. The bank is not clean either. Watching this company mismanaged and getting into debt more and more, they became more concerned with how much they could get by selling pieces rather than how to keep the business alive. And the community, even though very caring, is just watching. What a disaster.
 
Sword and Shield said:
I wouldn't say that.

I heard of the patient being ill, possibly very ill. So, I asked the question, and got a number of responses from men on the street, as it were. One report from a unioner, call it a family member. What I still haven't heard from is the patient.

I wouldn't say a death hunt. I'd say along the lines of we heard they were sick, and want to know how they plan to heal.
Click to expand...

This is more of a case where the patient is critically ill, and the family member jumps on his chest with both feet.
 
In the Camillus debacle the workers are the victims, the community and the customers, suppliers, designers, salespeople are the losers. The bank will lose big time, but this happened under their watch and they need to take responisbility for their action. The union leadership and the owners have been irresponsible. One by arrogance, the other by ineptitude, and both stuck in the dark ages. Somehow we don't get angry enough watching our country disintegrate from the inside piece by piece, as in this instance.
 
The company is still operating, though at greatly reduced capacity. They are still shipping knives, though not the quantity or variety as before the strike. Exactly what will transpire between now and the end of the year is anyone's guess.

You know, it is an odd quirk of the human condition to look for someone to blame when things go wrong. Afterall, someone must be guilty of sins of comission or omission. This is a fact of life that I have labored long and hard to teach my own children as they were growing up. The generation who "manned up" and took personal responsibility is fading fast.

I could very easily say that if Albert, Henry, Dwight, or Adolph Kastor were alive, none of this would have happened to the Baer cutlery empire that once was. Genuis innovators that they were, I still don't think they would have been able to adapt to the changing manufacturing and retailing environment of today.

You see, we tend to think these things are linier, but they are not. The changes are exponential. To explain this on a "101" level, the coming of age of new generations of buyers and the type products they want to buy, foriegn competition and their capacities and capabilities, changing manufacturing methods and materials do not come about 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but rather 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128. Keeping up with the cutting edge of manufacturing and marketing today takes a special kind of savey. For a century of more, bigger was better. This is not the case today.

More employees, increasing production capacity, a bigger market share, more inventory on hand. It doesn't work this way any more. And manufacturers who try to compete on a global scale, and do not adjust their thinking, maintain their old ways of operating, fall by the wayside.

Once again making an obscure reference to explain a factor no one seems to remember; In spite of the rhetoric surrounding the "owners", the bank, the Union, the product, the community, there is a wizard behind the curtain pulling levers, and causing clouds of vapor to rise, and igniting flashes of gas, mesmerizing all who behold.

Codger needs yet more coffee
 
This was in the '...Becker Love' thread. It was dated 8/8:

Bladite said:
i ordered me some slabs... got two sets, $20 each, and $11-12 shipping.

happen to have an extra campanion, we'll see if i can do the de-nude and handle thing, perhaps get a different sheath for it as well. go for that "odd" custom look

talked to the lady for a little bit. yup, on strike. steel still coming in, beckers still being made. sheaths coming in from an outside vendor. not working at capacity, but they are putting out stock.

bladite
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Thanks Bladite!
 
After reading the last page of posts, I am glad to see that minds have opened up to the fact that not one factor is to blame for Camillus' plight but the on going of many factors big and small. Everyone has to have their opinion said as it is their constitutional right. Whatever happens happens good or bad. Would it be another case like ENRON??? Perhaps, perhaps not.
Whatever the case a great deal of people have lots to lose or have already lost. The one thing I would find that all people would benefit most by is open communication. But....... I hope that the workers are able to move forward with their lives in some way. It would be nice if Camillus would let that happen, but too much time has past, but we could all hope for the best. For those that have moved on good luck and godspeed.
I do recall reading a small book about moving one's cheese??? Something to do with change I think. I know that I personally have benefited from reading it.
Always remember to keep an open mind, because life is more than twofold.
 
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