Anybody else notice BladeTech ripoffs at Big5

[John T Wylie Jr]

copying is pretty much fair play

Sorry , I will never see it that way, If you copy someone's work , and don't get prior permission , well to me , that is morally wrong. I could care less what the legal-head-lawyers say , it is wrong.

I am sure you couldn't convince Todd and Tanya Begg that " copying is pretty much fair play" , nor any other maker who has had their design copied or knocked off.

While you are correct a counterfeit and a copy are "technically" different , in the end , it is still being done by a bottom feeder with no moral , and no respect for others , so to me I see both as the same , scum sucking bottom feeders.

 

[SaMX]

I'd say a counterfeit and a copy are different. A counterfeit is actually being passed off as the original, whereas a copy is just stolen design.

both are wrong though.

 

[gwapo99]

CRKT now make some of their knives in china. The US customs autorise that the "made in china" was not on the blade but it must be put on the box. Gerber also do that for long time.

 

[Jennifer_B]

just10minreader has a good point. It's up to those being infringed to enforce their own IP. If there is an infringement, they can at least be thankful that Big 5 is easier to target rather than some fly by night operation.

Assuming they have the resources to pursue a potentially drawn out lawsuit.

Taking on a big company with much deeper pockets can be a good way to sue yourself out of business.

 

[archerandy87]

i now have a valid concern, and was hoping someone could help me:

i got my point guard at big 5, as already stated. the CRKT logo is very close to the thumb stud, while in online pictures, it's farther down the blade. does that mean mine is a counterfeit?

 

[shecky]

Assuming they have the resources to pursue a potentially drawn out lawsuit.

Taking on a big company with much deeper pockets can be a good way to sue yourself out of business.

Yup. Life is tough that way.

Sorry , I will never see it that way, If you copy someone's work , and don't get prior permission , well to me , that is morally wrong. I could care less what the legal-head-lawyers say , it is wrong.

I am sure you couldn't convince Todd and Tanya Begg that " copying is pretty much fair play" , nor any other maker who has had their design copied or knocked off.

While you are correct a counterfeit and a copy are "technically" different , in the end , it is still being done by a bottom feeder with no moral , and no respect for others , so to me I see both as the same , scum sucking bottom feeders.

You can see things any way you like. But copying of ideas is a fact of life. To deny that is about as reasonable as denying the world is round. Designers/inventors/manufacturers that refuse to face this fact often bring on all kinds of misery upon themselves, in addition to being copied.

 

[tntbegg]

Sorry , I will never see it that way,

it is still being done by a bottom feeder with no moral , and no respect for others , so to me I see both as the same , scum sucking bottom feeders.

You just have a way with words John!!!! AND I concur wholeheartedly.

I just love it when people ( shecky ) justify immoral, unethical, scurrilous behavior as a way of life that we just have to grow up and accept. Just because it happens, does not mean we should tolerate it or just face this fact as part of life. The fact that I don't have the financial resources to battle the thieving bastards does not mean the rest of the world should just assume this is how business is done and its acceptable. Thats why many of us do not and will not support copying/counterfeit by spending our dollars with those companies.

FYI....NOT accepting that theft/copying /counterfeiting is ok HAS NOT brought all kinds of misery to my life or our buisness. Thanks for the concern though.

TANYA BEGG

 

[3Guardsmen]

weren't you just speaking highly of Cold Steel ?

conterfeit/copy/knockoff are the same things. Can't support one company and bash the other , or can you

Funny you decided to go there, John. Did you even read my thread where I "spoke highly of Cold Steel?" I complimented Cold Steel for having done an outstanding job on an original design, their American Lawman folder, which a friend gave me as a gift. That thread was about a knife, and I stand behind that thread. The Cold Steel American Lawman is an excellent knife!

Maybe you'd like to share which knife company or maker you feel Cold Steel ripped off with their American Lawman knife, John, because I don't see it? Something else I fail to see is the correlation between giving kudos on a well made, original knife and supporting counterfeiting, but I'm sure you were just rushing to judgment in your zest to point out what you erroneously thought was hypocrisy.

One thing I am proud to say is that I've never supported another kind of counterfeiting/copying, the kind where one makes false claims of military heroism to sell a product. I've never supported that! How about you, John?

I'll leave you with some of your own words to reflect upon:

Sorry , I will never see it that way, If you copy someone's work , and don't get prior permission , well to me , that is morally wrong. I could care less what the legal-head-lawyers say , it is wrong.

While you are correct a counterfeit and a copy are "technically" different , in the end , it is still being done by a bottom feeder with no moral , and no respect for others , so to me I see both as the same , scum sucking bottom feeders.

Regards,
3G

 

[3Guardsmen]

Well, a lot of the manufacturers whose products are being counterfeited have been notified. We'll just have to wait and see where it leads.:thumbup:

Regards,
3G

 

[orca8589]

Thats why many of us do not and will not support copying/counterfeit by spending our dollars with those companies.

After lurking & posting here for more than a year and a half, my knowledge (of knives, that is ) has increased to the point that I hardly buy any knife without researching it thoroughly first. IMHO, there are just too many nice & innovative designs out there, in all price ranges, to even bother with copies/ripoffs. Add to that the fact that I've tested for myself many of the old copies I had, and not one held up like the originals. I used to torture test these old "rejects from the junk bin", but now I don't even bother. I'd rather save my $$ for a few more months and buy an original brand, be proud to have it, and know that the original designer is getting credit for it.

I have to give credit to Big 5 and Taylor Brands (S&W) for sparking my renewed interest in knives in 2005; but, in June of '07, I realized that the first S&W I had bought was a copy, of another brand's knife, which in turn was itself a copy... seriously, it was that bad. It took me several days of looking around to find out who the original maker was. So at this point, there are certain brands I don't even look at anymore.

thx - cpr

 

[3Guardsmen]

Just to give you all an update, CRKT got back to me and informed me that they manufacture a line of knives specifically for Big5, so the knives I saw there were legit.

Regards,
3G

 

[shecky]

I just love it when people ( shecky ) justify immoral, unethical, scurrilous behavior as a way of life that we just have to grow up and accept.

Absent the usual legal protections instigated by the designer, copying is not immoral, unethical, or scurrilous. Counterfeiting is. The refusal to make a distinction is a willful exercise in self deception.

Hey, nobody ever said running a business would be easy.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

copying is not immoral, unethical, or scurrilous.

Tell ya what , try this , why don't you copy a few makers knives and take em to Blade and show em around and report back with your feedback.

 

[just10minreader]

Tell ya what , try this , why don't you copy a few makers knives and take em to Blade and show em around and report back with your feedback.

I own the sharp and pointy phrase "Tell ya what" stop copying me
Seriously though, ever heard the
expression "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?"

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Seriously though, ever heard the
expression "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?"

of course I have , however , it was probably made up by someone doing the copying , not the person being copied. Or a fast talking lawyer

 

[sixfoot7]

Sorry , I will never see it that way, If you copy someone's work , and don't get prior permission , well to me , that is morally wrong. I could care less what the legal-head-lawyers say , it is wrong.

I understand and respect your opinion, John, but my question to you is, do you apply this theory to every product manufactured, or just selected ones?
If so, then I must ask this: are you sure the pants, shoes, socks, light bulbs, pens or pencils you buy are from the original manufacturer? What about your last pizza? Or the stove you cooked it in? What about a fork? I'm sure there's a single person who manufactured all of the above item's first, and others copied.

To me there is a clear distinction between copying and counterfeiting. We all see it all day long, everywhere. Including the computer you use to view and respond on. There would be painfully few businesses/manufacturers in existence if copying didn't happen, and their products would be hideously expensive due to lack of competition.

Rik.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

I understand and respect your opinion, John, but my question to you is, do you apply this theory to every product manufactured, or just selected ones?
If so, then I must ask this: are you sure the pants, shoes, socks, light bulbs, pens or pencils you buy are from the original manufacturer? What about your last pizza? Or the stove you cooked it in? What about a fork? I'm sure there's a single person who manufactured all of the above item's first, and others copied.

To me there is a clear distinction between copying and counterfeiting. We all see it all day long, everywhere. Including the computer you use to view and respond on. There would be painfully few businesses/manufacturers in existence if copying didn't happen, and their products would be hideously expensive due to lack of competition.

Rik.

Great and valid points sir. I do not know if they are original , however if I know something is not the original I would never discredit the original by saying it is ok to copy it .

I do not spent my time on stove forums , pizza forums , fork forums or clothing forums , so I am not able to say what is or isnt original in those lines.

However for someone to come on a knife forum , where there are plenty of custom and hand made knife makers making a living and claim that imitation is the highest form of flattery is a bit absurd.

You have CRKT , BM , Spyderco and Kershaw doing the right thing , doing collabs with makers and paying them for their designs , while you have others side stepping that and just copying the designs without payment.
While some have claimed copying to not be illegal if not trademarked or patented , I can't see how anyone can claim it's moral to copy anothers work without permission or at the very least paying homeage to the originator.

Back when my wife managed a couple clothing stores , I went with her to clothing conventions ( the clothing version of Blade ) , and believe me , when someone else copies someone else's design , it get's ugly there really fast.

Your points are well taken , and well said.:thumbup:

 

[tntbegg]

Absent the usual legal protections instigated by the designer, copying is not immoral, unethical, or scurrilous. Counterfeiting is. The refusal to make a distinction is a willful exercise in self deception.

Hey, nobody ever said running a business would be easy.

If copying is not unethical and by extension illegal, then why do people/companies spend millions getting things patented and copy righted???

Why do we have solid cutlery companies like Kershaw, CRKT,Buck,Boker and BenchMade to name a few bother with paying custom makers for the right to copy their design elements??? You should notify them that they are wasting millions of $$ by paying the custom makers. I guarantee 98% of those custom makers don't have "the usual legal protections" on their designs.The guys running those companies must be morons, think how much they could improve their bottom line if only they knew that it was perfectly ethical to copy anyone's work!!!!!

Gosh, I think you should hire yourself out as a business consultant!!! You could revolutionize so many industries!!! Auto,Music,Cutlery,Textiles......its limitless! There are millions of products and concepts in use that don't have the usual legal protections, and think of how much more money companies could make! You would seriously be impacting the Legal industry though, I mean what will all those unemployed Patent lawyers and Infringement guys do?????



Dang it!!! I get it now. If the usual legal protections were not instigated by the designer then its perfectly ethical to copy. So ethics is only dictated by whats legal. Good to know. This should dramatically impact how we do business.

Tanya Begg